[MD] Valuing Bodvar's SIM (BSIM)

[skutvik at online.no]

Hi Andy 

Sorry for the delay, but "I must save the world each day" (as 
Eurythmics sings)

15 July:

Bo before:
> > Mati's got it right, just a little addendum: The "thought pattern"
> >  is crucial in the sense that it is SOM that has made "intellect"
> > mean all/any thought pattern.

Andy:
> All right, let me ask you about a practical example. Kindergarten
> stuff, really. A man in prehistoric Mesopotamia enters his neighbor's
> tent. The neighbor says, "Is it raining outside?" The man replies, "No.
> I'm thirsty. Do you have any water?" Are there any objections to this
> story being called a realistic example? If not, let's use it. 

OK, let's see where this leads.

> Obviously these characters have attained levels 1-3. Have they
> attained level 4? Why or why not? 

That all human societies are Q-social is plain, because it was the 
human biological organism that DQ "rode" to the social level, but  
nowhere on this earth - can't speak of cultures extinct - had the 
intellectual level been reached in Mesopotamian times. According to 
Pirsig the Orientals had an intellectual bout in what is known as the 
Upanishads period, but that's another issue. Intellect in the Western 
Culture arrived with what we - moqists - know as SOM in Greece in the 
last millennium before "our time"  ... btw the same time as the Oriental 
culture. But the Middle East is locked in the social level due to Islam, 
so are as are the orthodox Jews due to Judaism, but they are so 
special that it requires a whole post

How would you change the story to
> reverse your decision?

You mean how the dialogue would have been to reveal an intellectual 
culture? Well first of all this situation might well take place inside 
Harvard University, we are all of the 1-2 and 3 levels so being thirsty 
and asking for something to drink is universal. However if the neighbor 
had said: "The rain and draught that people say is caused by Baal is 
an all-natural phenomenon having nothing to do with the moods of 
gods. Yes, by the way, objectively seen there are no gods, it's all 
subjective faith".

Bodvar