[MD] Babylonian intellectuals

[Mary]

Hello Khoo,

Sorry, I was not trying to call you out or bait you as is the basic pattern
of this list of late, but I would like to start a clear conversation
sometime.  It seems like the major reason you have problems with seeing the
Intellectual _Static_ Level as SOM has to do with an exclusion of Eastern
values.  This is so, but if you've followed the protracted conversations on
this topic you might be aware that those of us who view SOM as the
Intellectual _Static_ Level also view the MoQ as something higher than that.
What I think Pirsig is trying to point to is that the MoQ is equivalent to
the Dharma, and that both these operate at a higher plane than the mere
Intellectual Level - which is, need I repeat Static. :)  I don't imagine you
view Dharma as _static_, but I could be wrong?

Best,
Mary

> Mary,
> 
> Since you called me out, is it your intention to bait me with the
> comments
> below? if you are, I am going to ignore this post of yours
> If you are not, then try to address my point that Eastern civilisations
> such
> as the Chinese, have evolved their respective intellectual levels such
> that they are not dominated by SOM, but where other intellectual
> patterns have taken hold.
> 
> Thank you.
> Khoo Hock Aun
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 2:39 AM, Mary <marysonthego at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Nah.  Read that post again.  Khoo can't stand the thought that the
> > Intellectual Level is SOM because he wants to think that all
> Easterner's
> > are
> > above that.  He seems to think that an Easterner can have no home in
> the
> > Intellectual Level as SOM and that that is somehow degrading?
> Interesting.
> >
> >
> > Best,
> > Mary
> >
> > > Nice Khoo,
> > >
> > > You really make the point well that we are engaged in an infinite
> > > process,
> > > and if we expect any sort of  finality we're going to be
> disappointed.
> > >
> > > But even while our formulations and dialectical wrangling seem
> endless,
> > > we
> > > ought to also be progressing - getting us somewhere.
> > >
> > > I myself feel happy and content with my own evolving ideas,
> generated
> > > by the
> > > many good ideas and thinkers on this list for their time, effort
> and
> > > care.
> > > I want to thank each and every contributor, the more infuriating,
> the
> > > better.
> > >
> > > As always, Khoo,  you bring a fresh wind and a fresh perspective.
> > >
> > > Good words, and I appreciate them.
> > >
> > >
> > > John.
> > >
> > >
> > > n Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 8:04 PM, Khoo Hock Aun
> <khoohockaun at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > That many can read an author like Pirsig and come away with
> widely
> > > > differing
> > > > understandings is to be expected.
> > > >
> > > > I would have thought a more open dynamic mind would be completely
> > > receptive
> > > > to what Pirsig was trying to convey. A closed static mind, sees
> the
> > > MOQ
> > > > only
> > > > in its own mould.  In Bo's case, I would venture fourth stage
> meta-
> > > stasis
> > > > had already set in years ago.
> > > >
> > > > Pirsig should have added a caveat, that the MOQ is not for
> everyone
> > > to
> > > > grasp
> > > > at first instance. For some it could takes, years, decades or
> even a
> > > > lifetime.
> > > >
> > > > Dave added:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I really, really hate what you're doing to this place, clogging
> it
> > > up
> > > > with
> > > > > this hair-brained nonsense all the time. I listened to it for
> over
> > > a
> > > > decade
> > > > > now and I'm just sick to death of it. Please, get a hobby. Go
> away.
> > > Let
> > > > us
> > > > > do philosophy, will you? That would be "a promising
> development".
> > > > >
> > > > Khoo would like to say:
> > > >
> > > > I, for one, really appreciate all your exertions, as do all else
> who
> > > labour
> > > > like you do to clarify our understanding of the MOQ and Quality
> as
> > > > presented
> > > > by Pirsig.
> > > >
> > > > It is not wasted, even if it might be on Bo.
> > > >
> > > > It has helped instead to refresh our perspectives, place into
> > > context,
> > > > again
> > > > and again by repeated defence against the assault on Pirsig's
> MOQ.
> > > >
> > > > Lurkers and newbies alike, if I may say so, who disdain but
> endure
> > > the
> > > > endless, sometimes pointless argumentation over basic
> definitions,
> > > see much
> > > > value in defending Pirsig's formulation of the MOQ, given that it
> is
> > > THAT
> > > > which drew them here in the first place, not a pretender's
> version.
> > > >
> > > > If and when, we, as a discussion group,  leave all this
> "adolesecent"
> > > > sparring behind, I hope we can explore the new vistas an expanded
> > > > rationality can explore.
> > > >
> > > > We still have not bridged Western and Eastern philosophies yet,
> which
> > > is
> > > > one
> > > > such great promise of the MOQ finding common ground I look
> forward
> > > to;
> > > > by understanding how Eastern civilisations have achieved their
> > > respective
> > > > intellectual levels as compared to the SOM-dominated Western
> > > worldview.
> > > >
> > > > We will cross the bridge when we come to it. But we are not there
> > > yet.
> > > > Not when we still have to come to terms with tendencies no matter
> how
> > > overt
> > > > or latent, for Western hegemony over the rest of the world.
> > > >
> > > > It does looks like a slog, but then again, who can ask for a
> better
> > > cast of
> > > > characters than on the this list to make philosophy an ongoing
> > > dynamic
> > > > battle, an everyday real-life clash of ideas sometimes couched in
> > > terms of
> > > > "biblical proportions" and implications. It gets the adrenaline
> > > pumping;
> > > > emotional drivers that help meld the static and the dynamic to
> yield
> > > > creative insight by the clash of the rhetorical swords.
> > > >
> > > > You stay keen and sharp by your own vigilance for the real and
> good.
> > > This
> > > > state of mind does not come in the absence of opponents and
> > > detractors who
> > > > distract by imposing themselves on you.
> > > >
> > > > Thats all they do and want to do.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards
> > > > Khoo Hock Aun
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> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> khoohockaun at gmail.com
> 6016-301 4079
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