[MD] Re Arlo

[ARLO J BENSINGER JR]

[Arlo previously]
Of course, by this reasoning, any "metaphysics" that talks about "intellect"
creates a "new level" as it can't possibly contain itself.

[Bo]
How many metaphysics like the MOQ, with a DQ/SQ divide and a static level
hierarchy with "intellect" the topmost level, have you encountered? Sounds like
your library is choke full. 

[Arlo]
DQ/SQ, static hierarchies, have nothing whatsoever to do with my point. Are you
saying that NO other metaphysical systems have ever referenced "intellect"? And
that since those systems can't be part of the reality they describe, according
to your "logic" they all create "new levels" or a "new reality" above the parts
they describe.

What you are, in effect, proposing is not a new level of just "the MOQ", but a
level called "metaphysics" that sits above "intellect". The problem is,
analyses of "metaphysical patterns" then necessitates a "meta-metaphysical
level" above that, ad infinitum.

By the way, I know of at least two metaphysics of Quality with a DQ/SQ divide
and a static level hierarchy with "intellect" at the topmost level. Pirsig's,
where his ideas are an intellectual pattern and his intent was an expansion of
rationality, and Bo's, where his ideas reflect a new level of reality and evil
intellect is finally put in its place.

And, to be so bold, I can name a third, my own, where the social level is not
defined by "humanness" but by mediated social behavior, evidenced in a few
other highly complex biological patterns; such as dolphins and apes.

ALL these are competing ideas... competing "intellectual descriptions of
nature", intellectual patterns that are, by definition, part of the reality
they describe.

Maybe all this would be clear to you if you replace the objectified use of the
"The MOQ" with "Pirsig's ideas", or just talk about your own ideas rather than
saying "The MOQ says...", since it can say nothing, since it is simply a label
for the collection of a person's ideas.