[MD] Bo's weak versus strong interpretation of quantum physiks

[Krimel]

> [Magnus]
> Just had to chime in here. The MoQ's stance here is actually:
>
> I think (I (subject), experience the ideas (object) in my brain)
> therefore I exist in the same stack in which my physical brain resides.
> Because ideas are intellectual patterns and all patterns are dependent
> on lower level patterns.
>
> [Krimel]
> I don't think the cogito moves us anywhere near a subject or objects. I
just
> used "subject" because the statement contains some "I"s. All it says is
that
> I know that I exist in virtue of my thoughts. I cannot seriously doubt
that
> I am having thoughts but that says buttkiss about what thoughts are, where
> they come from, what my relationship to them is or anything whatever about
> the "I" that is having them. Most of the "problems" associated with
> Descartes come from his own elaborations of the cogito and from the
> elaborations of his commentators.

[Magnus]
Sometimes, I'm not really sure what you see in the MoQ, because you 
never use it the way I think it was intended.

To me, that's a very good example that shows how powerful the MoQ levels 
are, and how they agree with common sense. The common sense that says 
that we all live in this physical world and my thoughts are residents of 
my brain and can control my physical body.

[Krimel]
Descartes was trying to find something about which it was impossible to be
skeptical. Out of the line of argument leading up to the cogito we get the
idea of clever demons who could deceive us about everything we experience.
That would include things like: I have a brain and physical body or that
there is a physical world at all (something dmb remain confused about. For
example, I doubt that he would buy your claim that there is a physical world
in which you have a body.).

For about the umpteenth time I regard Pirsig's work especially in ZMM as a
western explication of Taoism and as such very useful and valuable. When it
strays from that track it becomes, er, uh, less valuable.