[MD] Social Intellectual

[craigerb at comcast.net]

"We invent earth and heavens, "stones and oceans, gods, ..civilization and science".  (Pirsig)

[dmb]
> "matter" is a concept.

But are inorganic patterns of value, concepts?  If so, we have the absurdity
of a pattern being on the 1st & also the 4th level.  
 
[dmb]
> it is  ridiculous to think that gravity existed before human beings,
> especially before a particular human named Newton.

[ian]
> MoQ says they were always interacting patterns of
> quality. 

Consider:
1) God created mountains
2) Humans created mountains
3) Interaction between tectonic plates & subterranean eruptions
created mountains.
Which sound like fiction, which like fact?
Remember the Platypus!
Humans debated whether it was a furry reptile or an egg-laying mammal.
The platypus (unlike a beaver) didn't give a dam.
There is another sense to humans creating mountains: the distinction
 between hills & mountains.  What determines whether something is a hill or a 
mountain?  The 5 billion meter tall cyclops of Zargon IX find the earth to be
smooth, without hills or mountains.  So are hills & mountains in the
 "mind of the beholder"?  Only their description.
Craig