[MD] Capitalism: my experience

[plattholden at gmail.com]

On 2 Mar 2010 at 3:01, Ham Priday wrote:

Who said that S/O excludes values?  I appreciated values long before I 
ever 
heard of MOQ, and so did you all.  When you fall in love, you value your 
beloved.  If you love music, you don't have to channel into some DQ 
mode to 
experience its value.  Indeed, how could you enjoy music without 
hearing it 
sung or played on a musical instrument?  That, my friends, is the value 
of 
S/O existence.

Platt
Well my friend, those like you locked in S/O existence believe the 
values you mention are subjective, i.e., not real, just all in your head, 
like sugar plum fairies.   

Ham
Yet, Platt says "S/O constricts direct experience to subjects and 
objects." 
The deception in this assertion is that there is a distinction between 
"common" experience and "direct" experience, when in fact ALL 
experience is 
S/O experience.

Platt
Wrong. Direct experience occurs prior to division of S/O. This is all 
basic MOQ stuff. No wonder others question whether you have read 
Lila. 


Ham
If nothing else, subjects are "experiencers" and everything of value is 
associated with the experiential (objective) world.  Unexperienced value 
is 
an oxymoron, or, as Pirsig himself said: "If a thing has no value it 
doesn't 
exist."  Of course it's conceivable that you could imagine a value that 
isn't experienced, and you might even call it 'DQ', but where is the 
justification for positing it as Reality?  (And Pirsigians are paranoid 
about faith-based theories?)

Platt
Justification? Again, read LIla. 

Ham
We are all value-sensible creatures.  Value is what binds us to the 
essential Source.  But we don't "experience" value per se.  Cognitive 
experience is the differentiation of value into things and events (i.e., 
"value patterns") that constitute our space/time world.  Our realization of 
value--consciously, emotionally, sensually, and intellectually--relates 
directly to this experience.  In short, common experience is as "direct" 
as 
human beings ever get to Value.

Prior to "differentiation of values into things and events," we experience 
"value per se." You can't differentiate something that hasn't been 
experienced first. 

That's just common sense. ;-)

Best,
Platt