[MD] Redressing the MoQ

[skutvik at online.no]

Magnus 

Bo before: 
> > Here's the intelligence-intellect again. To you " ...reacting to
> > intellectual patterns" means able to read books, add 2+2 ...etc.
> > which is NOT intellectual patterns.

Magnus: 
> Oh, but it *is*. Which is what I've tried to say to you for the last
> 2-3 posts, but you simply don't reply to those sections of my posts.

Ok then the intellectual level started around the time "Lucy" lived in the 
Big Rift region in Africa seven or so million years ago. 
 
> When you criticize Islam, it seems you use the MoQ to prove that
> Muslim people are stupid. But the MoQ *cannot* be used that way. You
> risk getting all sorts of right-wing morons as disciples if you
> continue doing that.

I do NOT, I always emphasize that the Q-intellectual level has nothing 
to do with intelligence and that the Muslim Culture is as smart - and 
manipulate as many symbols - as anyone else. It's your non-
understanding of the said level that causes this misunderstanding and 
prevents the use of the MOQ where it really brings clarity. 

It's the same non-understanding of the MOQ that brought LILA so 
much bad reviews regarding the "campus section" about intellectual 
and biological forces joining forces to quell social ditto. This the leftists 
read as a new race theory - biological centered people being stupid - 
but intelligence has been equal since Homo Sapiens.    

However THIS is something that RMP brought on by himself through 
his ambiguous presentation of the 4th. level and what I try to put right.

> > OK, I know, but for the moment we are earth-bound.
 
> That doesn't matter one bit since we're supposed to be talking about
> a universal metaphysics here. It should work just as well here on
> earth as on any planet in any galaxy far, far away...

Agree.

> > The social LEVEL is absolute necessary for the intellectual LEVEL
> > and as Pirsig says intellect "employs" social patterns - language
> > included - ....where intellect has risen above society. Elsewhere 
> > - in the Muslim culture - language goes on as a means of studying
> > the Koran.
 
> Quit harassing Islam, there are Christian fractions just as static.
> Fanatics are the problem, the particular kind of fanatics is
> irrelevant. You're polluting the MoQ.

I agree regarding fundamental Christians and all its sects, they are as 
"social-level-locked", but the Lutheran Church is heavily intellect-
influenced and there are surely as many Swedish pastors as 
Norwegian who have cut the Semitic ties and only speak about the 
rebel Jesus. ... thank God ;-)    

> My point in the paragraph above was to show the similarity between
> carbon/biological patterns vs. language/intellectual patterns. Don't
> you see it, or are you just unwilling to acknowledge it?

I once regarded it as obvious, but the intellectual level does not have 
any direct ties to language which has been around since my favorite 
Neanderthals without spawning any subject/object realization . Rather 
I've speculated if not language was the SOCIAL carbon. The true Q-
social level that is. But I leave that open.       

> > Intelligence is clearly connected to/with brain and brain is
> > biology.
 
> Wrong, wrong, wrong! It is so easy for you to just demote the
> complete and immense workings of a human brain to mere biology, but
> you haven't stopped for one second to think about what the
> ramifications are. 

Tell me!
 
> No, the level, i.e. the metaphysically significant difference appeared
> when a nerve knot became complex enough to be able to store
> information, and then use that information later. Don't you realize
> what a momentous step that is? To be able to learn from earlier
> experience and adapt?  You just demote such functions to biology, but
> when you do that, you strike the ostrich pose to the eye-opening
> analogies you would otherwise see between human societies and cell
> societies and other types of societies. 

Don't YOU see how you promote SOM  - i.e. superimposing intellect's 
S/O on to the the lower leves. The biological level does not "know" any  
difference between OBJECTIVE brain and SUBJECTIVE experience. 
Nor does the next stage - the social -  only with intellect does this 
distinction occur. This knowledge is immensely valuable and I work my 
ass off to protect it from a false MOQ that says that the S/O is just one 
subjective pattern to be superimposed by another subjective MOQ-
pattern. This poses a lethal danger.  

> Don't you realize that the MoQ becomes stronger from making those
> connections? It's able to reduce more complexity into the levels
> instead of having to invent special cases. 

I don't understand this but WHAT iI underswtand is that you are 
intellect-locked and - moreover - have no intention of making it over to 
the MOQ

Bodvar