[MD] Redressing the MoQ

[Magnus Berg]

Hi Bo

> Here's the intelligence-intellect again. To you " ...reacting to intellectual
> patterns" means able to read books, add 2+2 ...etc. which is NOT
> intellectual patterns.

Oh, but it *is*. Which is what I've tried to say to you for the last 2-3 posts, 
but you simply don't reply to those sections of my posts.

> Look to what Pirsig deems such :
>
>      Third, there were moral codes that established the supremacy
>      of the intellectual order over the social order - democracy, trial
>      by jury, freedom of speech, freedom of the press.
>

I've already said I'm ok with calling those intellectual patterns. But I do have 
a problem with your inability to even respond to my other claims.


>> ....I'm still amazed why all people here have never even tried to
>> resolve that obvious culprit with the MoQ.
>
> This part I'm not able to unravel, please explain.

When you criticize Islam, it seems you use the MoQ to prove that Muslim people 
are stupid. But the MoQ *cannot* be used that way. You risk getting all sorts of 
right-wing morons as disciples if you continue doing that.

>> Regarding the carbon issue, language is almost like carbon, not
>> exactly. Carbon is just one possible element to build biological
>> patterns with. It happens to be the most suitable in earth's
>> environment, but in another environment, another element may be more
>> suitable.
>
> OK, I know, but for the moment we are earth-bound.

That doesn't matter one bit since we're supposed to be talking about a universal 
metaphysics here. It should work just as well here on earth as on any planet in 
any galaxy far, far away...

>> Language however, is absolutely necessary for intellectual patterns.
>> One *specific* language, for instance English, would map exactly to
>> what carbon is to the biological level. If you write something in
>> English, like this post, you require English to decode the message as
>> intellectual patterns. Without English, the intellectual patterns are
>> gone. It's exactly the same with carbon and biological patterns built
>> with it. Take the carbon away, and the biological patterns are as
>> gone. I have no idea how it's possible to *not* realize that
>> similarity.
>
> The social LEVEL is absolute necessary for the intellectual LEVEL and
> as Pirsig says intellect "employs" social patterns - language included -
> ....where intellect has risen above society. Elsewhere  - in the Muslim
> culture - language goes on as a means of studying the Koran.

Quit harassing Islam, there are Christian fractions just as static. Fanatics are 
the problem, the particular kind of fanatics is irrelevant. You're polluting the 
MoQ.

My point in the paragraph above was to show the similarity between 
carbon/biological patterns vs. language/intellectual patterns. Don't you see it, 
or are you just unwilling to acknowledge it?

> Intelligence is clearly connected to/with brain and brain is biology.

Wrong, wrong, wrong! It is so easy for you to just demote the complete and 
immense workings of a human brain to mere biology, but you haven't stopped for 
one second to think about what the ramifications are. And don't just quote 
Pirsig, that's philosophology remember? Do some real thinking of your own.


>> And you show no signs of even trying to understand what I'm saying
>> regarding the difference between individual intellect and an
>> intellectually governed society.
>
> Right, if we enter that the MOQ is gone. Admittedly we -  Westerners -
> are aggregates of all value levels, thus out societies are intellect-
> governed, but this is not what you mean by "individual intellect" rather
> the same as David Thomas that some intellect has been around since
> the said brain knot only forming a "level" some millions year later.

No, the level, i.e. the metaphysically significant difference appeared when a 
nerve knot became complex enough to be able to store information, and then use 
that information later. Don't you realize what a momentous step that is? To be 
able to learn from earlier experience and adapt? You just demote such functions 
to biology, but when you do that, you strike the ostrich pose to the eye-opening 
analogies you would otherwise see between human societies and cell societies and 
other types of societies. Don't you realize that the MoQ becomes stronger from 
making those connections? It's able to reduce more complexity into the levels 
instead of having to invent special cases.

	Magnus