[MD] atheistic and content

[gav]

wow - i hadn't seen those before.
i really disagree

i think writing off the bible is very bad idea. we understand our cultural lineage little enough without ignoring the central text. like telling the chinese to ignore confucious and lao tzu.

you can't solve religious problems - they are mysteries. how do you solve the tao? or the mystery of the cross. pirsig is naive here

quality is nature; so quality is pantheistic? sounds like spinoza. pantheism is a theism.

pirsig misconstrues faith; faith is at the heart of everything - it is what it means to know oneself. the delphic maxim and faith are identical.

intellectual truth? what is that? intellectual truth is existential truth - truth is not generalisable, truth is a pathless land (krishnamurti).

spirit and faith are existential terms. dropping existential criteria is at odds with an using a radically empirical metaphysics. it is incongruent.

from these annotations pirsig doesn't look much better than dawkins.



--- On Fri, 12/3/10, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:

> From: MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
> Subject: Re: [MD] atheistic and content
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Received: Friday, 12 March, 2010, 11:11 PM
> 
> 
> On Mar 12, 2010, at 6:34 AM, gav wrote:
> 
> > atheism may be a nonsensical position.
> > it is like saying - 'here is this concept [of god]
> that i have imagined, now i am going to pretend it doesn't
> exist.
> 
> 
> Gav,
> 
> Atheism to me is a low-value social static
> pattern.   
> 
> [Definition:  Atheists are people who believe that god
> or gods 
> (or other supernatural beings) are man-made constructs, 
> myths and legends or who believe that these concepts are 
> not meaningful.]  
> 
> No existence/non-existence to debate.   
> 
> > 
> > there is no transcendent ground to validate our
> imaginings - quality, god, tao, fish, bubblewrap: all
> imaginary and real
> 
> 
> There is unpatterned experience which is available, and
> sans drugs offers a rich, vital experience beyond
> words.   
> 
> A cookbook or a romance novel can contain wisdom.  I
> do not know how anyone can defend that violent, sexist crap
> that is the bible.   
> 
> I was most grateful that RMP, as the MoQ's author, made it
> so clear:
> 
> 
> "The MOQ supports religion but does not support many
> Christian traditions."
>    (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations)
>  
> The MOQ is an atheistic religious outlook that solves
> rather than bypasses religious problems.
>    (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations)
>  
> "Quality is nature. The MOQ says there is no spiritual
> principle in man that makes knowledge possible. Nature does
> the whole job."
>    (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations)
>  
> “The MOQ does not rest on faith. In the MOQ faith is very
> low quality stuff, a willingness to believe falsehoods.”
>    (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations)
>  
> "The MOQ would add a fourth stage where the term "God" is
> completely dropped as a relic of an evil social suppression
> of intellectual and Dynamic freedom. The MOQ is not just
> atheistic in this regard. It is anti-theistic."
>    (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations)
>  
> "The selling out of intellectual truth to the social icons
> of organized religion is seen by the MOQ as an evil act."
>    (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations)
>  
> “For quality, no faith is required because there is no
> way you can disbelieve that there is such a thing as
> quality.”
>    (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations)
>  
> "When you hear the words 'spirit' and 'faith' always look
> for a traditional religionist trying to sneak his goods in
> the back door. ...like the positivists, the MOQ drops spirit
> and faith, cold."
>    (Pirsig, Copleston Annotations)
>  
> 
> Hurray!!!  
> 
> 
> 
> Marsha, of the hurray.    
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Fri, 12/3/10, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
> wrote:
> > 
> >> From: MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
> >> Subject: [MD] atheistic and content
> >> To: "MoQ" <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
> >> Received: Friday, 12 March, 2010, 10:14 PM
> >> 
> >> 
> >> I've always  thought of the moq as an
> atheistic,
> >> anti-thesitic place where 
> >> I might be a religious person who doesn't believe
> in god,
> >> or better yet,
> >> a place without such divisions as I and
> >> god.   
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> ___
> >> 
> >> 
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> >> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
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> 
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