[MD] Hoy stoves and those who sit on them

[MarshaV]

Hello John,

How would you break this down to address: the experiencer, the experience and
the experienced?  


Marsha  




On Mar 19, 2010, at 11:41 AM, John Carl wrote:

> The hot stove method of truth transferal is probably the oldest and most
> common experience in human history.  It goes like this,  the infant wanders
> near the hot stove and its mother warns it "Don't go near the stove, Johnny,
> you'll get burned".
> 
> Almost inevitably though, Johhny, out of accident or curiousity touches the
> hot stove and mother goes "see? I told you so."
> 
> Even though mothers are being protective in this situation, you can hear a
> little satisfaction in their tones of comfort.  Sometimes laughter hidden in
> their words - their warnings and admonitions have been empirically proven,
> Their truth, transferred.  I've seen the drama enacted enough times to
> understand the pattern, and if mommy was really concerned with preventing
> the hot stove reaction, there'd be some kind of fence around the stove.
> 
> In some homes, there are such fences,
> 
> Those kids grow up rebellious usually.
> 
> Other homes, nothing is said at all about the danger of the stove and the
> child is left to its own stumbling explorations to figure out
> which parts of reality is hot, which is not.
> 
> Those kids grow up cautious.
> 
> Other houses, kids are whipped for touching hot stoves.
> 
> Those kids grow up self-hating, self-destructive and prone to
> self-mutilation.
> 
> And in every single case, any hot stove experience in the future is going to
> be interpreted in the light of past experience, and the personality
> development that's occurred so far.  Every hot stove experience is unique,
> because every person experiencing the stove is unique, with a predisposed,
> preprogrammed reaction and interpretation of the experience.  The bare
> empirical facts of metal and flesh can be identical, but the experience is
> not of empirical facts.  The experience is of empirical facts being
> interpreted by a unique individual, every time generating a unique
> experience.   There is nothing pure or immediate to any of this.  It's all a
> vastly complicated interpretive dance, dependent upon so many factors that
> are impossible to isolate but one thing is certain beyond argument - without
> an experiencer, there is no experience,
> 
> And without a social process of experiencer  creation, there is no
> experiencer.
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