[MD] Hoy stoves and those who sit on them

[John Carl]

interesting question, Marsha,

On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 9:49 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:

>
> Hello John,
>
> How would you break this down to address: the experiencer, the experience
> and
> the experienced?
>
>

because undoubtedly they are descriptions of the same thing, the event, the
experience, no?

And yet we assign to the terms differing meanings, differing povs, for
differing pragmatic purposes.  And we pretty much do understand each other
when we use those differing terms of the experience-event.  hmm... cool name
for a rock band, no?


but to address the experience of the hot stove, it depends.  It can be good,
or it can be bad.  When a child learns to listen carefully to its mother's
warnings, that is an overall good.  If the child is so badly injured that
she dies, it's an overall bad.

Thus the value or  Quality of the event is not in the immediate,
 experience, but in the overall context - an interpretation between the
subject and object AND some third overarching principle of valuation.
 Interpretation is triadic in nature and thus more inherently stable than
the diadic relationship of S/O.

As you know,

John






>
> Marsha
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 19, 2010, at 11:41 AM, John Carl wrote:
>
> > The hot stove method of truth transferal is probably the oldest and most
> > common experience in human history.  It goes like this,  the infant
> wanders
> > near the hot stove and its mother warns it "Don't go near the stove,
> Johnny,
> > you'll get burned".
> >
> > Almost inevitably though, Johhny, out of accident or curiousity touches
> the
> > hot stove and mother goes "see? I told you so."
> >
> > Even though mothers are being protective in this situation, you can hear
> a
> > little satisfaction in their tones of comfort.  Sometimes laughter hidden
> in
> > their words - their warnings and admonitions have been empirically
> proven,
> > Their truth, transferred.  I've seen the drama enacted enough times to
> > understand the pattern, and if mommy was really concerned with preventing
> > the hot stove reaction, there'd be some kind of fence around the stove.
> >
> > In some homes, there are such fences,
> >
> > Those kids grow up rebellious usually.
> >
> > Other homes, nothing is said at all about the danger of the stove and the
> > child is left to its own stumbling explorations to figure out
> > which parts of reality is hot, which is not.
> >
> > Those kids grow up cautious.
> >
> > Other houses, kids are whipped for touching hot stoves.
> >
> > Those kids grow up self-hating, self-destructive and prone to
> > self-mutilation.
> >
> > And in every single case, any hot stove experience in the future is going
> to
> > be interpreted in the light of past experience, and the personality
> > development that's occurred so far.  Every hot stove experience is
> unique,
> > because every person experiencing the stove is unique, with a
> predisposed,
> > preprogrammed reaction and interpretation of the experience.  The bare
> > empirical facts of metal and flesh can be identical, but the experience
> is
> > not of empirical facts.  The experience is of empirical facts being
> > interpreted by a unique individual, every time generating a unique
> > experience.   There is nothing pure or immediate to any of this.  It's
> all a
> > vastly complicated interpretive dance, dependent upon so many factors
> that
> > are impossible to isolate but one thing is certain beyond argument -
> without
> > an experiencer, there is no experience,
> >
> > And without a social process of experiencer  creation, there is no
> > experiencer.
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