[MD] Trance Zen Dance

[John Carl]

ok, so a comprehension of emptiness leads to an awakening?

How?

And, once accomplished, is that it?  Is there more awakening to realize once
you've awakened from one dream into another?

If so, then is comprehension of emptiness again required?  Is it the same
emptiness? Or is it a bigger and more comprehensive emptiness this time?
 How many comprehensions of emptiness are there?

I told you I was a Pry-er.

John (only it's actually spelled "Pryor")





On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 9:38 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:

>
>  John,
>
> To be among the awakening.
>
>
> Marsha
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 27, 2010, at 12:03 PM, John Carl wrote:
>
> > Marsha,
> >
> > I agree completely that self and object have no autonomous existence.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> And John, I prefer to use no-thingness, or better yet: emptiness, rather
> >> than
> >> nothingness.  Self and objects are empty of an autonomous existence.
> >
> >
> >
> > My only question or challenge for you is prying into what uses you make
> of
> > emptiness?  As a goal?  As an explanation?  As a basis for understanding?
> >
> > OR as an evasion?
> >
> > When does emptiness come in real handy for you?
> >
> > John the Pry-er
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> On Mar 26, 2010, at 8:17 PM, John Carl wrote:
> >>
> >>> "Among the many forms in which human spirit has tried to express its
> >>> innermost yearnings and perceptions, music is perhaps the most
> universal.
> >> It
> >>> symbolizes the yearning for harmony, with oneself and others, with
> nature
> >>> and the spiritual and the sacred within us and around us. There is
> >> something
> >>> in music that transcends and unites. This is evident in the sacred
> music
> >> of
> >>> every community-music that expresses the universal yearning that is
> >> shared
> >>> by people all over the globe."
> >>>
> >>> -His Holiness the XIV Dalai Lama
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> “I say we fill our guns full of love and we shoot for a new
> >>> dream<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXg6Cm_T9fk>
> >>> ”
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Trance Zen Dance is as cool name for a band, imo.  They're a local
> >>> group<http://www.trancezendance.org/home.html>that have been around a
> >>> while so I've heard their names on the radio more
> >>> than a few times, listened to a CD of their music once, from a friend.
> >>>
> >>> We went on a quick trip to Reno, again, while my eldest daughter Em is
> >> home
> >>> for Spring Break.
> >>>
> >>> So what I've been thinking about, between hotels, shopping and eating,
> is
> >> my
> >>> last post to Marsha, and why religious, spiritual or psychological are
> >> all
> >>> inadequate terms for transcendent experience.  Even though transcendent
> >>> experience is in a sense, psychological, spiritual and religious.
> >>>
> >>> But really, what it is most of all is experience which takes us out of
> >> our
> >>> static conceptions of self.  Transcending our selves.
> >>>
> >>> The problem with labeling this experience "spiritual, religious or
> >>> psychological" is that those are definitions of what lies beyond our
> >> static
> >>> conceptions of self.  If we fully realize and conceptualize the
> >> transcendant
> >>> experience with these terms, then we block transcendance.  For then,
> our
> >>> "outside" has become part of our conceptual arrangemand we can no
> longer
> >> go
> >>> there in seeking escape from ourselves.
> >>>
> >>> We can't grasp transcendance.
> >>>
> >>> And I think Marsha knows this well, with her embrace of "nothingness".
> >> But
> >>> even nothing becomes something when it's abstracted and aimed at.  So
> >> that
> >>> doesn't make me all that happy either.  For instance, my nothing is
> >>> completely different from your nothing, since my nothing is dropping MY
> >>> patterns and your nothing is dropping yours.
> >>>
> >>> And then there's the thing that Ron points to with his Emerson quote:
> >>>
> >>> Fresh truth, like the thoughts of genius,
> >>>
> >>> comes always as a surprise, as what Emerson
> >>> calls “the newness” (CW3: 40). He therefore
> >>> looks for a “certain brief experience, which
> >>> surprise[s] me in the highway or in the market,
> >>> in some place, at some time…” (Z: 253). This
> >>> is an experience that cannot be repeated by
> >>> simply returning to a place or to an object
> >>> such as a painting.
> >>>
> >>> A great disappointment of life, Emerson finds, is that one can only
> >>> “see” certain pictures once, and that the stories and people who fill a
> >> day
> >>> or an hour with pleasure and insight are not able to repeat the
> >> performance.
> >>>
> >>> -----
> >>>
> >>> I'm almost tempted to say, "duh", Ron and Emerson,  but that'd be
> >> repeating
> >>> a performance.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Our language,
> >>> Our language of creation,
> >>> Language of liberation,
> >>> We speak into that space
> >>> That we call the now
> >>> As we allow
> >>> To let truth
> >>> Teach us how.
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> >>
> >>
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