[MD] Buddhism's s/o

[John Carl]

Yo Mary our weekend girl,


[Mary Replies]
> I know that, John, which is why I see more value in not having to overcome
> limiting beliefs.  If you start out with shackles on it's really hard to
> make progress in the journey.  Since we have a limited amount of time,
> wouldn't it be better to start out with comfortable walking shoes instead?
> You might get farther down the road.



So why not call a cab?  Or install moving sidewalks?  or put people in those
little floating chairs they all used in the movie Wall-E?   Why should
children of the future have to pound pavement with feet when technological
development could make life so much easier?

Because exercise is good for their bodies.



> Or are you implying that my
> open-minded upbringing makes me mentally inferior to your herculean efforts
> to overcome childhood indoctrination?
>

 Oneupmanship, hierarchical weighting, the degree and grading system, all
are not my cuppa tea.

I had a thought, a realization.  Don't you think those can be valuable at
times?  Pirsig points out the value of suffering - that its actually the
driving force behind evolutionary development.

I can't see imposing unnecessary suffering on my children, just to make them
grow.  But on the other hand, when we're talking about millinia of religious
indoctrination getting tossed out the window, practically overnight, then I
think some questions oughta be asked about possible long-term effects.
Probing the causal relationships between an individuals ability to reason
and the obstacles overcome in the process.





>
> > So the fact that we hand our children all our hard-earned insight on a
> > plattitudinal platter, I reckon is akin to bringing them into a world
> > where
> > they don't have to strive for anything.  Water comes from a tap, food
> > from
> > McDonalds, ideas from tv.  Give me about one more generation of this
> > and I
> > predict humans too flabby to think themselves out of whatever mess our
> > rapidly collapsing economy devolves into.
>
> [Mary Replies]
> It was really great back in the good old days when my Mother had to pick
> cotton every fall just to pay for her school shoes.  That built character,
> and taught her that she didn't like picking cotton.
>
> You give people far too much credit.  The greatest struggles of life are
> the
> internal ones.  It is entirely possible to know something intellectually
> but
> yet not believe it.  Everyone does it all the time.  Until a concept is
> internalized it remains outside oneself.
>
> You are also mixing your metaphors.  Either you wish to discuss the
> relative
> merits of conveying your belief system and your hard-earned insights to
> your
> children, or you wish to lament the appearance of McDonald's in your
> neighborhood.
>
>
You gotta MIX the metaphors to get the meaning.  And then you put them in
the oven and don't take them out half-baked (that's where I usually go
wrong, taking my half-baked ideas out of the oven and presenting them before
they're really done)

That's the process if you want the cookie.





> >
> > But hey, that's cool.  I mean the important thing is that there be no
> > real
> > conflicts in belief, that we're all equally "special" and the personal
> > rush
> > of liberation we experience in our proudly won atheism is kept as our
> > uppermost value.
> >
> > Because in the end, it's not about the effects of my thinking on
> > society or
> > my children or the future, is it?  It's all about how it makes me feel
> > in
> > the moment, right?  Nothing else matters to  the nihilistic pleasure-
> > seekers
> > of the me generation.
> >
>
> [Mary Replies]
> If you say so.  You do realize you don't want to believe what you just
> said?
>


You got that right!



> Beliefs are high Quality static patterns of value.  They've served you well
> so far, right?  And they don't like being trumped by even higher Quality
> patterns.  That's kind of what Static is all about.
>
>
I agree completely.




> > I know, I'm starting to sound like Rigel.
> >
> [Mary Replies]
> In moments of stress people often blurt out what they really believe.
> That's what's so handy about our beliefs.  They're automatic.
>
> There's always more internal heavy lifting to be done.  The answers are
> already within you.  I blurt out stuff I wish I hadn't said all the time,
> and when I have the energy for it, I try to use that as a learning
> experience.



Hey, you and I have that in common as well as the tech-support background.
I'm like, a major blurter.  I blurt all the time.


>  Sometimes the beliefs are so static and buried so deep that we
> aren't even aware of them.  Those are the sneaky ones.  The ones you aren't
> even aware you have.  It takes some stressor to bring them out into the
> light of day.  Before you knew you were carrying around any given belief
> you
> couldn't do anything to change it.  You have to know you have it first.
>
> The unexamined life is not worth living?  Nah, let's keep our lives on
> auto-pilot and go to McDonald's!
>
>
My wife has such an intense hatred of McD's, she'd probably rather I had an
affair.  Wanna have an affair instead?


:-)  (kidding Lu, of course)


All the best to you Mary,  Thanks as usual for the delightful chat.

John



> Best,
> Mary
>
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