[MD] Buddhism's s/o

[Mary]

Hi John,

On Behalf Of John Carl
> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 11:24 AM
> 
> Yo Mary our weekend girl,
> 
> 
> [Mary Replies]
> > I know that, John, which is why I see more value in not having to
> overcome
> > limiting beliefs.  If you start out with shackles on it's really hard
> to
> > make progress in the journey.  Since we have a limited amount of
> time,
> > wouldn't it be better to start out with comfortable walking shoes
> instead?
> > You might get farther down the road.
> 
> 
> 
> So why not call a cab?  Or install moving sidewalks?  or put people in
> those
> little floating chairs they all used in the movie Wall-E?   Why should
> children of the future have to pound pavement with feet when
> technological
> development could make life so much easier?
> 
> Because exercise is good for their bodies.
> 
> 
[Mary Replies] 
By then we'll have figured out a way for people to get their exercise during
sleep.

> 
> > Or are you implying that my
> > open-minded upbringing makes me mentally inferior to your herculean
> efforts
> > to overcome childhood indoctrination?
> >
> 
>  Oneupmanship, hierarchical weighting, the degree and grading system,
> all
> are not my cuppa tea.
> 
[Mary Replies] Well that's good, 'cause otherwise you'd have me beat in that
area.

> I had a thought, a realization.  Don't you think those can be valuable
> at
> times?  

[Mary Replies] 
Never gave it much thought.

Pirsig points out the value of suffering - that its actually
> the
> driving force behind evolutionary development.
> 
> I can't see imposing unnecessary suffering on my children, just to make
> them
> grow.  But on the other hand, when we're talking about millinia of
> religious
> indoctrination getting tossed out the window, practically overnight,
> then I
> think some questions oughta be asked about possible long-term effects.
> Probing the causal relationships between an individuals ability to
> reason
> and the obstacles overcome in the process.
> 
> 
[Mary Replies] 
When I was a kid we'd go to different churches on weekends.  Synagogue was
pretty rough because it messed up Saturday.  Catholic was better because you
could go on Saturday at 5 and still have time for dinner and a movie later -
and you got to klep out of Sunday too.  You know, these were kind of like
family field trips.  We'd all attend the service together, then come home
and talk about it afterward.
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > > So the fact that we hand our children all our hard-earned insight
> on a
> > > plattitudinal platter, I reckon is akin to bringing them into a
> world
> > > where
> > > they don't have to strive for anything.  Water comes from a tap,
> food
> > > from
> > > McDonalds, ideas from tv.  Give me about one more generation of
> this
> > > and I
> > > predict humans too flabby to think themselves out of whatever mess
> our
> > > rapidly collapsing economy devolves into.
> >
> > [Mary Replies]
> > It was really great back in the good old days when my Mother had to
> pick
> > cotton every fall just to pay for her school shoes.  That built
> character,
> > and taught her that she didn't like picking cotton.
> >
> > You give people far too much credit.  The greatest struggles of life
> are
> > the
> > internal ones.  It is entirely possible to know something
> intellectually
> > but
> > yet not believe it.  Everyone does it all the time.  Until a concept
> is
> > internalized it remains outside oneself.
> >
> > You are also mixing your metaphors.  Either you wish to discuss the
> > relative
> > merits of conveying your belief system and your hard-earned insights
> to
> > your
> > children, or you wish to lament the appearance of McDonald's in your
> > neighborhood.
> >
> >
> You gotta MIX the metaphors to get the meaning.  And then you put them
> in
> the oven and don't take them out half-baked (that's where I usually go
> wrong, taking my half-baked ideas out of the oven and presenting them
> before
> they're really done)
> 
> That's the process if you want the cookie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > >
> > > But hey, that's cool.  I mean the important thing is that there be
> no
> > > real
> > > conflicts in belief, that we're all equally "special" and the
> personal
> > > rush
> > > of liberation we experience in our proudly won atheism is kept as
> our
> > > uppermost value.
> > >
> > > Because in the end, it's not about the effects of my thinking on
> > > society or
> > > my children or the future, is it?  It's all about how it makes me
> feel
> > > in
> > > the moment, right?  Nothing else matters to  the nihilistic
> pleasure-
> > > seekers
> > > of the me generation.
> > >
> >
> > [Mary Replies]
> > If you say so.  You do realize you don't want to believe what you
> just
> > said?
> >
> 
> 
> You got that right!
> 
> 
> 
> > Beliefs are high Quality static patterns of value.  They've served
> you well
> > so far, right?  And they don't like being trumped by even higher
> Quality
> > patterns.  That's kind of what Static is all about.
> >
> >
> I agree completely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > > I know, I'm starting to sound like Rigel.
> > >
> > [Mary Replies]
> > In moments of stress people often blurt out what they really believe.
> > That's what's so handy about our beliefs.  They're automatic.
> >
> > There's always more internal heavy lifting to be done.  The answers
> are
> > already within you.  I blurt out stuff I wish I hadn't said all the
> time,
> > and when I have the energy for it, I try to use that as a learning
> > experience.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, you and I have that in common as well as the tech-support
> background.
> I'm like, a major blurter.  I blurt all the time.
> 
> 
[Mary Replies] 
John the tech support carpenter?  I once wired a house we were building, but
that's kinda electrically/electronically related, so no stretch there.  I
read a book about wiring then bought roughly 1/2 mile of romex and all the
boxes and stuff and went to town on it.  Wired up three-way switches and
everything.  I was so proud of myself.  The only really stupid mistake I
made was putting two GFI's in series for a hot tub.  Hehe  Had to ask
somebody who actually knew how to do wiring to figure out why it wasn't
working.

> >  Sometimes the beliefs are so static and buried so deep that we
> > aren't even aware of them.  Those are the sneaky ones.  The ones you
> aren't
> > even aware you have.  It takes some stressor to bring them out into
> the
> > light of day.  Before you knew you were carrying around any given
> belief
> > you
> > couldn't do anything to change it.  You have to know you have it
> first.
> >
> > The unexamined life is not worth living?  Nah, let's keep our lives
> on
> > auto-pilot and go to McDonald's!
> >
> >
> My wife has such an intense hatred of McD's, she'd probably rather I
> had an
> affair.  Wanna have an affair instead?
> 
> 
[Mary Replies] 
Nope.