[MD] Relativism

[John Carl]

Hi Marsha,

My thoughts on improving the social good?  Pretty simple, really.  People
pay attention and think.  Intellectual analysis of social patterns is about
the best hope I can see for humanity.

In practical terms?  Kill your tv.

Which you and I have already done, eh Marsha?

Thanks for asking.

John C.

On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 10:40 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:

>
> Hi John,
>
> Anybody ask you lately about your thoughts on improving and preserving
> the social good?  I'll ask.  John, what are your thoughts on improving and
> preserving the social good?
>
>
> Marsha
>
>
>
>
> On May 25, 2010, at 12:07 AM, John Carl wrote:
>
> > Ron, Bo and Mary,
> >
> > Ron's quote below seems so simple, so profound and so easy to understand
> > that the only possible reason I can guess for others missing it is the
> > oldest bugaboo in existence - group task avoidance.
> >
> > This group doesn't WANT to use the MoQ for its intended purpose of
> > "dynamically improving and preserving good social patterns" because
> people
> > in the group are too attached to their particular pet social patterns.
>  And
> > dying to one's attachments involves sacrifice.
> >
> > It's less painful to argue endlessly.
> >
> > DQ can be painful.
> >
> > Deal with it.
> >
> > John
> >
> > On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 8:17 PM, X Acto <xacto at rocketmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Ron:
> >> Lila ch.24
> >> "What is the purpose of all this intellectual knowledge? the metaphysics
> of
> >> Quality answers,"
> >> the fundemental purpose of knowledge is to dynamically improve and
> >> preserve society."
> >>
> >> "Intellect can support static patterns of society without fear of
> >> domination by carefully
> >> distinguishing those moral issues that are social-biological from those
> >> that are intellectual-social
> >> and making sure there is no encroachment either way."
> >>
> >> "whats good is freedom from domination by any static pattern."
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>> Ron, I mean, I didn't make up the rules - Pirsig did.  He clearly
> >>> defined the four levels as a hierarchy of values/morals.  He says each
> >>> successive level originated in the one below.  He explains how they are
> >>> all composed of static patterns of value - latched in response to
> >>> Dynamic Quality - yet are all in a state of continual tension with each
> >>> other.  I don't mean to be pedantic here, but to answer the question we
> >>> need to be starting out on the same page and with all the too-ing and
> >>> fro-ing in the forum, I'm not sure that we are.  Are these all the
> >>> basic premises we have?  There's one more, but to my surprise I got
> >>> flack for saying it a while back.  This puzzles me, so if someone would
> >>> like to argue it out, we could start here. Pirsig said the levels are
> >>> discrete sets of patterns of value that took off on a purpose of their
> >>> own from their parent.  I think this is pretty clear from the
> >>> literature, but someone, and sorry, but I don't remember who, took
> >>> issue with this.
> >>
> >> Ron:
> >> It all depends on how you interpret it, he says that evolution is a high
> >> quality
> >> idea, he says that we may understand experience abit better if we broke
> >> it down into four levels rather than two. If you interpet the levels in
> >> terms
> >> of objective existant fundemental constituants of reality which emerge
> >> out of each other, then your understanding is going to be a bit
> different
> >> than what others believe Pirsig is saying.
> >>
> >> Pirsig states that the levels, morally take off on their own, but ,
> >> it is useful and grounding to understand the point of departure
> >> and basic purposes " but it doesent mean children should assassinate
> >> their parents and it doesent mean intellectuals have to assassinate
> >> society." the point is that they have drifted and gotten lost.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> >> Archives:
> >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
> >>
> > Moq_Discuss mailing list
> > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> > Archives:
> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> > http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>
>
>
> ___
>
>
> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>