[MD] the sophists

[skutvik at online.no]

Hi John

28 May you said

Bodvar to dmb:
> > > You skipped my points that "teaching quality itself" is plain
> > > impossible (for Heaven's sake DQ is indefinable and hence
> > > unteachable) except learning about it as the DQ/SQ dualism form, but
> > > THAT could only be realized after the static hierarchy was completed.

dmb says:
> > Like i said already, the classroom scenes within ZAMM in particular
> > and both of Pirsig's books in general show quite clearly what it
> > looks like to teach DQ. These are huge counter examples to your
> > claim that Quality can't be taught.

John queries:
> but doesn't bo have a point in that one thing these passages are
> exactly pointing out that Quality can't be "taught"?  You know,
> regulated to rules and rigidization?
> Since the heart of the teaching was that some things can't be taught,
> I t'ot I saw bo's point.
> tautological. of course.  but then, what isn't.

DMB has - like the cartoon figure - long since walked off the cliff's 
edge, but doesn't know.

DMB  continues:
> > These example are so obvious and so large that no fancy argument is
> > needed. Teaching Quality is just a matte of getting people to notice
> > what they always already knew from experience.

What one experiences depends on the ruling metaphysics and in a 
sense each level can be seen as an "experience era" before the next 
level took over the "M" relay pin. Social metaphysics made people 
experience angels, burning thorn-bushes and Gods who delivered 
stone tablets on mountains ...etc. (just a tiny fragment of the social 
"experience"). Then the intellectual metaphysics (SOM) that made 
people experience existence as a bleak affair where qualities only 
exist as ephemeral mind-products with the real  world a dead, 
valueless material mass. Then the MOQ experience ....alas ... still 
fights for recognition against the gang-of-four who wants it to be 
another intellect-as-mind product. 


Bodvar