[MD] grmbl

[Andre Broersen]

Bodvar to Andre:

Andre previously:

Are you finally ready to admit that the S/O way of analyzing  experience, and (by implication,that this is therefore 'reality') is a  Western intellectual pattern of value which is quite dominant...in the  West?

Bodvar:
No, I'm not ready for any of your nonsense. The intellectual S/O level
cemented into SOM in the West, in the Far East it was transcended by
the Q-like Buddhism before reaching SOM proportions.

Andre:
'The argument that Oriental cultures would not be classified as intellectual is
avoided by pointing out that the Oriental cultures developed an intellectual
level independently of the Greeks during the Upanishadic period of India at
about 1000 to 600 B.C. (These dates may be off.) The argument that the MOQ is
not an intellectual formulation but some kind of other level is not clear to
me. There is nothing in the MOQ that I know of that leads to this conclusion.'

(Mr. Pirsigto Paul Turner)

Read this carefully Bodvar (and a few others on this discuss):...Oriental cultures developed an intellectual level independently of the Greeks...(not SOM nor its S/O 'proportions')these were immediately discarded within their own particular analysis of immediate experience.

You desparately need your version of this, and not Mr. Pirsig's to maintain your SOL argument, which is turning quite pathetic.

Bodvar:
In SOM science (physics at least) is the subject trying to find the laws
of objective reality. In the MOQ the "subject/object" distinction is the
intellectual LEVEL ... in case you didn't know.

To deem something subjective (even in quotation marks) tells a lot
about your twisted understanding of the MOQ.

Andre:
All things dealing with science, its methods, its data, its properties (as so called within the MOQ) including those ascribed to objective (inorganic/organic) patterns are part of its intellectual PoV's and within the MOQ are therefore subjective.
'Confusion is generated on this matter when it is forgotten that ALL scientific knowledge, including knowledge of objects, is subjective knowledge.This knowledge is confirmed by experience in such a way as to allow the scientist to generate a supremely high quality intellectual belief that external objects exist. But that belief itself is still subjective'. ( Annot. 100 in LC).

Bodvar:
To make science partly social  tells even more.

Andre:
'Just exactly how independent is science, in fact, from society?'The answer it [the MOQ]gives is. 'not at all'. A science in which social patterns are of no account is as unreal and absurd as a society in which biological patterns are of no account. It's an impossibility'. (LILA, CH. 24)

Who is twisted in whose understanding of the MOQ?

But I am afraid it will be water on a duck's back.