[MD] Is this the inadequacy of the MOQ?

Thu Nov 4 05:28:05 PDT 2010

I think it's quite a nice portrait of a society in "Island" - but the end is
interesting.
Thinking in terms of MoQ, one could guess that Huxley felt that the society
he portrayed wasn't "dynamic" enough. However, he couldn't conceive anything
better.

But a came to think of another distinction. It is one thing to be aware that
one is perceiving through one's senses. It is another to be aware that one
is superimposing interpretations on these sensory data. There is a third
thing to be aware that one is none of these: but what would one be without
these? Consciousness without experience, wouldn't that be nothing?

There is an old metaphor of likening the mind to a house. In the Freudian
sense in three floors. To some extent this is confirmed by neurology.

First there is the cellar or basement, the second word is somewhat better,
because it is also the fundament of the house.
Down there is a big heat engine. It's analogous to the "reptilian brain"
dominated by the olfactory system and the sympathetic nervous system (=the
heat engine). This basement is what keeps the house going. Shut off the
engine and everything would stop.
The ground floor is dominated by an electric generator, converting energy
from the heat engine to electricity which powers machines at the floor, and
also makes "light" in the house. This floor is analogous to the basic parts
of the cortex and the electric generator equals the limbic system (and the
parasympathetic NS) and this part of the CNS dependence on visual sensory
data. All production of the house takes place here. Down the basement, the
house just consumes and produces wastes. But at the ground floor it can
produce other things as well.
The upper floor is divided into two parts by a firewall, in which are only a
few hatches. This is analogous to the neocortex divided by the corpus
callosum. In the one of these parts, is the "employee management" analogous
to the right hemisphere. On the other is the "business management" analogous
to the left hemisphere. They don't communicate with each other very much.
But YOU, your consciousness, is none of these parts. It's rather the "owner"
of the house. You could take interest in any, every or no part of the house.
But if the different parts don't work well together you have problem.
Because you're the one responsible for what's going on, even though everyone
in the house is responsible to you.
This is, of course, also a simplification, but it works quite well, and it
combines the analytic methods of both Freud and Jung.
I've been using it for introspective purposes from time to time.
Sometimes it is could to conceive of yourself as a "whole", but sometimes as
"the sum of parts" and still other times as just a component in the larger
social system (the holon concept of A. Koestler again).
But can this owner learn something of what he himself is, by watching this
house? Can he find means of perceiving himself without perceiving the house?
Is he anything else than what he owns?
I think this is the "hard thing".

***

JUST ADDITIONAL

This is a part of the same text as I quoted the other day. The poetic I has
made the voice accepting him: but then the voice began to condemn everyone.

***I said: ”You bade me speak, and you bade me replay, and thus I venture to
talk again. I tell you this: You are not God. You are Satan, the Devil.
That’s why you talked to me that way. The Scriptures say that the Evil One
governs the Earth, but John wrote: “We know that we are of God and that the
whole world is in the Evil One’s grasp”. Be silent, Satan, and go away.”
Then the voice talked to me again and said:

“My wrath is flaming towards you. It shall consume you, as it consumes me.
Ha! You are my reflection! If you call me Satan, then you are the Devil
yourself.
You mention the scriptures. Fool! The scriptures also say: “as you judge
others, so will also you be judged”. Ha!
Hear me laughing at you. You’ve listened, but you couldn’t understand. Fool!
How do you dare talking to me?
You said that John wrote that “we know”. We know, yes! But “we” are both you
and I. Am I of God, are you of God. I have said that I am like you, but
where you are, I am not, and where I am, you are not.
The sky mirrors itself in the ocean and the sun in the moon. It’s a
projection. I AM. You are not. You are a glare, a phantom.
I’m delirious! I’m dreaming! You do not exist. Only I am the one who is.
Now I know that you aren’t me. You are like them, like them who are whoring
harlots, who adorn their vain appearance with make-up to hide themselves,
though they prostitute themselves in the open; they don’t want anyone to see
that they’re empty, and are constantly trying to fill themselves full by
whoring.
Woe to them! I’ll smash this mirror to pieces. I can’t stand to look at it
anymore.
I’ll be silent, never to talk again. I shall hide in the dark, never to be
seen again. They will ask for me, they will call for me, but I will not show
up and I will not replay.
Fools are what you are. Swine! You are impure. The surface of the mirror is
stained with blood and sin.
I wanted you to listen, but now you shall ask for me, but I won’t replay any
more.
Fool! That you ventured to deny me! That became your own judgment. When you
condemned me, you condemned yourself.***

One of the main ideas of the text, is the sense of isolation, exclusiveness,
loneliness and confinement. Both the poetic I and the voice are wrong but
for different reasons, so to speak.

/A

-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] För ADRIE KINTZIGER
Skickat: den 4 november 2010 11:46
Till: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Ämne: Re: [MD] Is this the inadequacy of the MOQ?

I'm very well aware of the message of the bird.

"We should listen to the other voices too", attention,...its not an endless
loop.
The bird is the voice of our nature,the little direct expirience that
remains.

Should i listen to the birds call?, Do we need the other voices to speak out
the endless loops again?start again with the ad infinitum, so to speak...
strange..
hmmm, makes me think.

2010/11/4 Alexander Jarnroth <alexander.jarnroth at comhem.se>

> The bird says that also, in the novel. But should it be in absurdum ad 
> infinitum that you should be aware that you are aware that you are 
> aware that you are aware... and so?
> To what should you really pay your attention? It isn't just 
> intellectual, I think. Also in act for instance.
>
> /A
>
> -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
> Från: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] För ADRIE KINTZIGER
> Skickat: den 3 november 2010 22:50
> Till: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Ämne: Re: [MD] Is this the inadequacy of the MOQ?
>
> very correct , very fast, yes , "attention" we should pay attention 
> the bird says, we should listen to the other voices to (contextually
> embedded)
> Fast and in depth;-faster now ;," -i will pay attention-"
> clearly capable of grasping the context.
> good , Alexander , really is...
>
>
> 2010/11/3 Alexander Jarnroth <alexander.jarnroth at comhem.se>
>
> > "Here and now, boys. Here and now."
> >
> > -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
> > Från: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> > [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] För ADRIE KINTZIGER
> > Skickat: den 3 november 2010 22:14
> > Till: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> > Ämne: Re: [MD] Is this the inadequacy of the MOQ?
> >
> > I agree, Andre, and also with DMB, it's total drivel.
> > This will kill every progress made earlier on.
> > Adrie "attention"- comes from 'island' (huxley) we should pay attention.
> > (birds voice) greetz, Adrie
> >
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