[MD] Intellectual Level

[plattholden at gmail.com]

On 4 Nov 2010 at 20:42, 118 wrote:

>
>
> [Platt]
> Good question, so hope you don't mind if I butt in with a possible answer.
> You're familiar I'm sure with "information theory," and probably know a lot
> more about than I do which is next to nothing. But at every level it seems
> for
> anything to happen there must be communication between what we regards as
> separate entities, whether particles, atoms, animals, or people. So
> surrounding
> all levels is a cacophony of signals in countless languages. So information
> is
> a sea in which the levels swim, to use a poor metaphor.
>
> As you go up the levels from inorganic to intellectual, information becomes
> increasingly usable by increasingly complex beings, humans being at the top
> of
> the complexity pyramid. At the social and intellectual levels information
> is
> turned by humans from raw dits and dots into symbols representing symbols
> in a
> cascade of analogues which are exploited endlessly to gain power over the
> lower
> levels as well as kindred human beings (think reason and rationalization).
> Where the intellectual level comes to fore is when humans believe they are
> intelligent enough to understand everything about everything (think science
> and
> "critical thinking").
>
> If you now ask what surrounds information we begin falling into the black
> hole
> where no one willingly goes, at least no one who worships at the Church of
> Reason and Pragmatism.
>
> This is off the top-of-my-head-out-of-the-blue sort of thinking which is an
> easy to shoot down. But, maybe there's a pony in there somewhere. What
> say you?
>
> Platt
>
> [Mark]
Thanks for the input.  I think what I would call a systems approach is a
good one. Under such an analogy, I would then describe the levels as
follows:

Inorganic- Interaction of matter through principles of inorganic chemistry
Biological- Interaction of organic matter based around replication
Social- Interaction of biological entities involving group formation
Intellectual -?????

If we try to form a stratification of levels where each one encompasses the
basics of the other, but with a added function, I do not see how
Intellectual is on the continuum.    As far as I'm concerned the intellect
is part of behavior, and separation of the two may be somewhat arbitrary.
 This is not to say I cannot conceive of an intellectual level, just not in
the ever increasing inclusionary (or control) format.  The social dominates
intellectual expressive modes as much as the other way around.  Is the
intellect somehow devoid of any biological interaction?  Speaking strictly
from the point of view of physical psychology, I do not see how this is
possible.

So one purpose of the boundaries is to note where the transitions takes
place.  Such transition is the inclusion of a new paradigm (replication,
groups, etc).  Social interaction certainly takes intellect, and the
intellect has not changed for thousands of years, just become more complex
due to the number of words and labels invented.  Man's interaction with the
environment is still the same.  I can also see the intellect as a process of
subdivision, endlessly splitting words into definitions, and concepts into
parts.  In this view, it is a dendritic or fractal complication of known
concepts.  It may be thought that by making them more complex, we know them
better.  But, we start with the knowing first, else-wise we would have
nothing to discuss.

Anyway, I am just trying to get some clarification.  I'm sure it is all in
the archives somewhere, but I cannot ask questions of the archives, they are
dead you know.  So the question could be, when is the social considered to
be the intellect?  What transition takes place to encompass it and define
its boundaries?

Hi Mark, 
:
In terms of transitions, the separation of the levels might go something like 
this:

Inorganic --  first physical forces and evolution of stars & planets
Biological -- first cell division and  evolution of plants & animals
Social -- first farming and evolution of  economics & laws   
Intellectual -- first measurement of physical forces and evolution of 
scientific knowledge 

Don't know precisely when the first three separations occurred but Galileo and 
Kepler are generally credited with being the first to apply modern scientific 
methods for establishing reliable knowledge. (about 1600). Prior to that time, 
knowledge was the province of the Church.     

Needs fleshing out but you get the idea. 

Regards,
Platt