[MD] A Different Approach - Networks and Stacks

[Ian]

That network of relations is the way I see the world most  
fundamentally - quality is about those relations. The levels are  
emergent when certain patterns of complexity are reached in the  
arrangements of those relations.

There is no fundamental level of granularity in the nodes connected,  
no real objects. Each level has pragmatic conventional nodes involved  
in the relations, but the relations are more fundamental than the  
subjects or objects at either end.

Sent from my android device on the 3rd rock from the centre of the  
most recent big bang.

Ian

On 7 Nov 2010, at 11:07, Horse <horse at darkstar.uk.net> wrote:

> Hi Mark
>
> As I was reading your post what popped into my head as I was trying  
> to visualise what you were saying was a sort of network  
> representation (I have a thing about DQ/SQ and the network  
> approach!) with nodes as quality events and their separation as the  
> arcs (vectors) between them. My visualisation was sort of multi- 
> dimensional in order to accommodate the different forms of SQ (Inorg/ 
> Org/Soc/Int) and the way in which the levels emerge but against a  
> background (container?) of DQ. So the combination is all- 
> encompassing Quality.
> Also, given a multi-dimensional approach this might also accommodate  
> Magnus's Stacks idea with a network (nodes and vectors/arcs) based  
> visualisation.
> Does this add anything to what you're describing?
>
> Horse
>
>
> On 07/11/2010 07:33, 118 wrote:
>> Recently I have been suggesting a description of Quality (Q) as  
>> "that which
>> separates".  This is of course an analogy which provides a path to  
>> Quality,
>> or in other words, a finger which is pointing towards it.  Such an
>> interpretation emphasizes that which separates Static Qualities  
>> (SQ), rather
>> than what they are.  The interpreted separation, which could also be
>> approximated by Assigned Value (AS), is ever changing, thus  
>> creating a
>> concept of Dynamic Quality (DQ).  When two things are compared, or  
>> two
>> choices are contemplated, it is the difference between the two that  
>> is the
>> intuited concept.
>>
>> Such a concept converts the objects or subjects themselves, and their
>> dynamic interaction, to the Quality between.  Approaching the  
>> notion of
>> Quality in this way, provides a shift in view or paradigm, that  
>> results in
>> an evaluation of the cause rather than the product.  The degree of
>> separation of good and bad concepts would be a function of that which
>> separates them, or Quality.  This suggests measurement of Quality,  
>> but such
>> a thing can be avoided by stating that such measurement is  
>> meaningless since
>> the objects are not real in themselves but simply a function of  
>> Quality, and
>> as such do not provide inherent characteristics for measurement.    
>> The
>> nonexistence of the things themselves could be imparted by  
>> describing them
>> as geometric points, which are dimensionless.  Or like the borders  
>> of the
>> combined DQ and SQ which are again without dimensions but only  
>> describe the
>> limits of apparent Quality as it is applied to specific examples.   
>> Personal
>> or subjective sense of Quality would then become universal since it  
>> does not
>> rely on our opinions of the things themselves.  Quality itself  
>> would remain
>> untouched, as a primary (or absolute) creator.
>>
>> In a broader sense, one could describe the Chinese concept of Yin  
>> and Yang
>> not as opposing dynamic entities, but rather ones which are separated
>> through Quality.  Quality viewed in this way would approximate the  
>> Tao, but
>> in a modern rational sense.  It provides a conceptual understanding  
>> of a
>> description of Quality in both its static and dynamic forms, as  
>> well as an
>> ineffable principle of separation.  The difference with Taoism is the
>> empirical notion of direction, as with Time.  Time itself is a  
>> function of
>> the pressure that (DQ) puts on change.  Such change creates static
>> dissimilarities which result in preference.  Preference implies  
>> choice.
>>  Such choice is directed by Quality, and could be seen as a vector  
>> with
>> direction.  The vector is not one in dimensional space, but is in the
>> metaphysical space of Quality.  The concept of betterness could be  
>> used as a
>> description of that direction.  The magnitude of such direction on  
>> a time
>> basis, is a direct result of the accumulation of dynamic quality.   
>> Such
>> accumulation is a result of harmonic tendencies of Quality's  
>> expression.
>>
>> In terms of the human mind, such separation results in the  
>> appearance of SQ,
>> and the notion of DQ, as a result of the transfer of an infinite  
>> amount of
>> information into simplified neuronal descriptions which appear  
>> isolated from
>> each other.  Such descriptions could be seen as the tendency of  
>> Quality
>> towards its static appearce.  The unifying factor is Quality, which  
>> is
>> missed, because we do not consider this separation, only the  
>> descriptions
>> themselves.  An analogy in physics would be something like a  
>> magnetic field.
>>  If two magnets attract each other, the strength of that attraction  
>> would
>> not be the result of the strengths of each magnet.  Instead, the  
>> strengths
>> of each magnet would be created by the magnetic field as first  
>> cause.  This
>> would be a flip in how the interaction between the two magnets is
>> conceptualized.  In the same way, colors are different not due to  
>> some
>> inherent property of the colors, but due to an inherent property of  
>> what
>> separates them.  Two things appear differently due to the intrusion  
>> of
>> Quality.  Since the objects themselves do not exist outside of this
>> separation, Quality encompasses them and becomes the source of  
>> everything.
>>  Another way to look at it is as the spaces between letters on a  
>> page.
>>  Words are created by the white portion of the page, not the black.
>>
>> This form of description is not difficult to grasp in theory.  The
>> difficulty comes from trying to conceptualize the world in this way  
>> because
>> our training or education has been based on just the opposite.   
>> Such a
>> paradigm shift could happen slowly with practice.  One Zen practice  
>> is to
>> stop labeling or naming things one sees, but rather to look between  
>> such
>> things with a more holistic sense.  In the same way, the  
>> codependent arising
>> of things could be simplified into the ebb and flow of DQ, or the  
>> tendencies
>> of Quality.
>>
>> Just a rough thought, open for discussion if desired.  The intent  
>> is to
>> provide a framework for easy transfer to the beginning student.   
>> I'm sure
>> there are many problems with it, at least in such a simple  
>> description
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Mark
>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>> Archives:
>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>
>
> -- 
>
> "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring  
> production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid."
> — Frank Zappa
>
> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org/md/archives.html