[MD] Plains Talk and Pragmatism

[rapsncows at fastmail.fm]

dmb,
something-ggggg below,
Tim

Thanks for your posts on this: this one and the previous long one I just
read (the one you updated from a wile ago).

Perhaps I shouldn't ahve poked my nose in this after all because I'm not
very interested in the question: is the MoQ anti-theistic.  But even
practically, I don't know what do do with the knowledge you dropped to
day.

I guess I can say that there is a difference between the root of the
theism and its contemporary, cultural, pragmatic, manifestation.  I
think that RMP would caution us against judging a theism from its
cultural manifestation.  And, as it is, the culture, this whole world -
as I see it - is rooted on injustice and holding over on your neighbor,
even to the point of forcing him into starvation, slavery, selling his
little daughters as sex slaves, etc.   Oh yea, and dying due to
dehydration.  Etc.

This being the case, even I feel super rich and privileged, and I don't
feel that I can levy any real judgment on others for the way they may
process and handle this situation.  If the world were just, or a modest
approximation thereof, I think the superficial aspects of religion that
you have denounced might --- just evaporate.  But then, there might be a
strongly rooted theism in its wake, maybe even one RMP would endorse (I
don't know and I'm not trying to argue this position).

you said below, "And so both sides have a hard time even recognizing the
humanity of the other side."  This, I think, is the key.  I also think
that the solution is quite simple, at least conceptually, but that would
corrupt the whole ladder of power and wealth, so...  I'm not holding my
breath.

anyway,
Tim

On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 09:55:16 -0700, "david buchanan"
<dmbuchanan at hotmail.com> said:
> 
> Tim said:
> ...I might interpret his perspective on theism, whatever it is, as a
> desire not to levy karmic garbage on others.  He might view all
> solidified contemporary theisms as a karmic dump sourced from that
> theist's inability to deal with the unknown. 
> 
> 
> 
> dmb says:
> 
> This is the thing about religion. Just look around. What is at the heart
> of our domestic politics and foreign policies? Muslims, Jews and
> Christians each define themselves in relation to the other two. Each form
> of theism thinks the other forms are wrong, if not downright evil. And
> this conflict is not limited to angry e-mails. It entails actual death
> and destruction. There is a vast difference of degree but not in kind.
> Islam uses suicide bombers to resist the infidels and Christianity uses
> assassins to resist abortion doctors. The fundamentalists in Israel
> literally believe it's their god-given right to occupy Palestine and of
> course all those Palestinian refugees beg to differ. And so both sides
> have a hard time even recognizing the humanity of the other side. This is
> the problem with theism. It's supposed to be a force for morality and
> good and brotherly love but that's obviously NOT what's happening. Quite
> the opposite. 
> 
> The framers of the constitution knew this about religion. European
> history is chock full of war, torture and murder in the name of religion.
> The age of colonialism was certainly about money and power but it was
> also very much about spreading Christianity at gun point. Whole cultures
> were destroyed in this process. And it's always about the guys and the
> bad guys. It always entails an epic karma dump. And today, in our
> context, theism is a reactionary stance. It's just a form of cultural
> supremacy and it could only be adopted by one who hasn't yet learned the
> lessons of history and/or one who hasn't read a newspaper in a long, long
> time.
> 
> 
> 
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