[MD] a-theism and atheism

[118]

Hi John,
>

I sympathize with disappointment with some in this forum.  As far as I am
concerned atheism or what ever one wants to call it posses no claims to
defining oneself.  It is a "not this" type of position.  I believe the
psychological roots that you speak of are real.  Intelligence cannot be
theistic, what is one thinking?  Unfortunately, history does not bear this
out.  Recently there is some fear of theism.  Perhaps they are thinking
"there for the grace of God go I".  It is no different from being against
poor people, or rich people and trying to ignore they exist, or shying away
from any difference or disability, simply because they do not want to be
reminded that their form of thought and life is only an alternative to
possible others.  If one is fearful of his own premises or opinions, he does
his best to destroy that which is foreign.

I don't think theism really comes into MOQ.  One could say that the belief
in Quality is theistic.  But this has no meaning, anti-theism has the same
issues.  I have been trying to explain to the converted on this forum that
Theism and Quality can live side by side, they are just words to express the
ineffable.  The actual structure or metaphysics can differ, which is where
we should go.  Let's define the structure.  But nobody wants to do that for
fear of actually expressing a personal opinion that may conflict with the
teaching of RMP.  This is really no way to proceed, this is not a religion
with dogma.  It is open to discussion not to just quoting the Book.

So, I do not disagree with you, but non-theism does not mean anything to me.
 Unlike you I have no childhood roots in any religion.  I guess I was
brought up pragmatically or whatever.  I simply read what theism is supposed
to be from books and discussions with intelligent people who have thought it
out and chosen theism.  I really do not have something deep to draw from.
 This may put me at a disadvantage, but it may also give me some
perspective.


[Jphn]

But non-theist, I can live with, even though technically speaking "a-theist"
> means exactly the same thing.  Atheists in the flesh, however, usually
> aren't simply non-theists, they are usually actually strident anti-theists.
> They think religion should be abolished in the name of scientific
> rationality.  The MoQ sees through that silliness - "scientific
> rationality"
> as just another thing that's only in your head.
>
> [John]

Now I realize there are many, if not most, on this list who will strenuously
> disagree with me.  And this is for the very good reason that they truly are
> antitheistic, and wish to force that view upon the whole.  They don't have
> any patience for varieties of religious experience, because they've got an
> axe to grind, an anger to assuage or a social group to conform to.  Thus
> psychological dependencies that won't withstand question or inquiry, as dmb
> so helpfully projected from within his own soul.  But how can he help it?
> When I'm talking about the common connotations of "atheist", I'm talking
> about the academic community: chief enforcers of an anti-theistic view
> based
> upon a long, long pattern of community - formation through enemy
> scapegoating and a social mechanism that is easy to explain with an
> analogy.
>
> [Mark]
There seems to be a demeaning of anything that can be explained.  For some
reason if we put words to something it becomes less.  This is the
illusionary power of words.  It is not without intellectual reasons that the
ancient Egyptian realized that by naming something you owned it.  Now they
were closer to the beginning of the symbolic use of words than we were, and
there were only a few that could do so.  Now that words are commonplace we
have lost that knowledge of bewitchment and actually think that the words
represent what they are naming.  Truth or Quality, they are all just
paintings and not the landscape itself.

By the way, I liked your Pavlov analogy with Monkeys.  Gotta banana?

Mark

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