[MD] [Bulk] Re: Humanism

[118]

Hi Arlo,
Who me? Unbiased ridicule?  Well perhaps I am repaying in kind.  You think?
 The post to Marsha was just to bring up the in-congruency of all of this.
 I thought you would appreciate it instead of feeling attacked.

For me, divine means that which comes before reason.  I'll leave it at that.
 I do sometimes use it to place all discussion within context.  That is we
cannot claim something to be true just because we say it is.

On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Arlo Bensinger <ajb102 at psu.edu> wrote:

>
> [Arlo]
> We are discussing whose ideas have more quality, and to do that we need an
> understanding of what has been said, and what is being said in response.
>
> As I said, my thoughts about non-humans on the social level is NOT an
> interpretation of Pirsig, it is a refutation of Pirsig.
>
> Certainly you can tell the difference.
>
> But yes, we are arguing whose ideas have more value, in Marsha's case its
> her ideas about Intellect=SOM versus Pirsig's ideas that Intellect!=SOM
> (that's programming code for "does not equal" for the laypeople).
>

[Mark]
Intellect is a tough one, I would say that the discussion of intellectual
ideas requires SOM. I believe this is Marsha's point.  Symbol manipulation
requires symbols.

>
> Or in my case its about my ideas that Social=Non-humans versus Pirsig's
> ideas that Social=Humans.
>

[Mark]
On what you state above that I did not respond to, I will now.  I fully
agree with you there.  I may extend the non Human concepts farther than you
would, that is beyond sentient beings.  This would simply because sentience
as we express it is made up of the non-sentient, as in molecules.  Where the
sentience comes in is difficult to say, and cannot be simply relegated to
the nervous system.  In this way, the social aspects as discriminated
against biological or inorganic is difficult to do when one requires such
walls.  Is a cell a social composite of organic molecules?  If not, why?
 There is certainly communication within a cell and an over riding sense of
community to keep the cell alive.

So I am happy to discuss this topic with you.  Again, I do not think it
refutes the notion of Quality in any way.  I believe that through discussion
with Pirsig, we would come to agreement that it is also not anti-Pirsig
premise.

Just my opinion,
Mark

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