[MD] [Bulk] Re: Humanism

[Arlo Bensinger]

[Marsha]
Did RMP say that dmb is the only "philosopher" that understands the MoQ?

[Arlo]
And so begins the carnival mirror. I'll play, for the moment. To 
answer, no. I believe he named Ant as well.

[Marsha]
And in general, is dmb any more a "philosopher" than you, or Mark, or 
Dan, or John, or Ron?

[Arlo]
Ah, methinks me sees the a reflection of the green devil in that mirror?

I believe, to get back to what was actually said and not this silly 
mirror, that Pirsig believes DMB is one of two people who understand 
the MOQ the most, and I think this is a repeat of what was said in 
the DVD. Along with DMB, I think that list should most definitely be 
expanded to include David Granger, and I personally would be tempted 
to make a nod here too to Matthew Crawford (Shop Class as Soul Craft) 
even if his primary emphasis was ZMM. On my personal short list, I'd 
also include Horse and Dan. Over the years I've found there 
respective understanding of Pirisg to be unparalleled.

You know, of course, that this does not make you or me or Mark or Ron 
and John, or Pierce, or Nietzsche, or Hegel or Kant, or Plato, or 
James, or Johnny Lydon or Bugs Bunny "any less a philosopher". You 
know, of course, that Pirsig was not naming who is and who is not "a 
philosopher". What he was doing was pointing out who he thinks 
understands his ideas with the most accuracy.

[Marsha]
If RMP said dmb has a firm grip of his ideas, does that mean 
absolutely every aspects?

[Arlo]
I'm going to break out of this silly carnival mirror again. The 
context here was that you repeatedly called DMB's understanding of 
the MOQ "shallow", it was not about whether he is right on every 
single detail. To that, I think I would say that Pirsig obviously 
does not think DMB's understanding of his work is "shallow", and I 
would think Pirsig would know.

[Marsha]
Does that mean that no one but dmb has a firm grip on his ideas?

[Arlo]
Back into the carnival mirror again. Okay then, no, he named Ant as well.

[Marsha]
What is a psychological issue within the MoQ?

[Arlo]
Per this context, when hostility and acrimony are a barrier to 
intellectual patterns. In this case, after repeatedly doing nothing 
but accusing DMB of having a "shallow" understanding of the MOQ, when 
he finally breaks and presents a supportive word from Pirsig that 
shows the exact opposite to be true, you STILL are doing nothing but 
acting out of hostility, now trying to twist the context into whether 
DMB is right about every detail, about whether other people are 
"philosophers", etc, all of which have nothing whatsoever to do with 
what has been said, just ways you are looking for to keep attacking DMB.

[Marsha]
I have not dismissed dmb's last post on relativism, but I 
responded.  I am now awaiting his response.

[Arlo]
"Charlie Brown, I have a great idea. I'll hold the football like 
this, and you come running up and kick it..."
"HA! I wouldn't try that for a million dollars! You won't hold it.. 
You'll pull it away, and I'll kill myself!"
"WAAH! YOU DON'T TRUST ME! You think I'm no good! You have no faith in me!"
"Don't cry, Lucy.. I apologize.. I'm sorry.. Please, don't cry... You 
hold the ball, and I'll come running up and kick it.."
...
"AAUGH!"
...
WUMP!
...
"Never listen to a woman's tears, Charlie Brown!"
(Peanuts, Friday September 30, 2005)