[MD] What kind of ethical theory is the MOQ?

[MarshaV]

On Nov 24, 2010, at 6:24 PM, 118 wrote:

>> 
>> Hi Marsha,
>> 
> Thanks for the discussion, all I have is my opinion, it is certainly no
> authority, but I understand things by asking questions.  I hope you do not
> mind.  I will of course do my best to answer yours.

Marsha:
I mind not.   


>> On Nov 24, 2010, at 4:05 PM, 118 wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Marsha,
>>> 
>>> I guess a better way to phrase my question would be to ask:  When you say
>>> 'I' are you pointing to something, or pointing to the change of that
>>> something?
>> 
>> Marsha:
>> And I do not know what you mean by the word "something."  Thing?  I
>> have experienced myself to be a flow of bits and pieces of ever-changing,
>> interrelated, impermanent static patterns of value.  The label 'I' is a
>> label for that process.
>> 
> 
> [Mark]
> So, if I take your statement and use a little substitution algebra, I come
> up with this:
> 
> " A flow of bits and pieces of ever-changing, interrelated, impermanent
> static patterns of value" have experienced "a flow of bits and pieces of
> ever-changing, interrelated, impermanent static patterns of value" to be "a
> flow of bits and pieces of ever-changing, interrelated, impermanent static
> patterns of value".  All I have left is to figure out what you mean by
> experienced, then I will understand you.  How does experience fit in?

Marsha:
Because of the "little substitution algebra" the statement, along with the 
conclusion, has become yours, so how does experience fit in?   


>> Marsha:
>> And now I am asking you?
>> 
>> 
>>> Mark:
>>> The brain part reviews what is known as best it can, the emotional
>>> dictates part of choice, and the "I" intuits the answer.
>> 
>> Marsha:
>> Have you become an authority?
>> How do you know?  What is your evidence?  How can you be sure?
>> 
> 
> [Mark]
> You asked me a question and I gave you an answer.  There is no authority
> other than my own.  The evidence comes from what I believe.  Believing is to
> be sure.  Does this answer your question, or do I need a quote from
> Wikipedia to make it seem more convincing?

Marsha:
I explained a while back that for me the brain is a biological static pattern of 
value.  If your believing provokes you to post a quote about the brain from 
Wikipedia, please do.  I'm not sure I will read it, though, I am more interested 
in what isn't understood about consciousness.  


>>> Mark:
>>> For this I need an "I" which does not change from one moment to another.
>> 
>> Marsha:
>> I don't see the need.
>> 
> 
> [Mark]
> It would seem that by using the using the pronoun 'I', which is the singular
> personal pronoun of the subjective case, you do see the need.  If you don't
> see the need then your grammar would reflect that.  How would you state your
> "I don't see the need" according to your view of reality?

Marsha:
I didn't design or create the rules of grammar.  They do not seem to fit.  I might 
better do a waggle dance on the back of your left hand.    


> [Mark}
> Again, I will ask what is this I that is experiencing other?  

Marsha:
I do not know how to answer this question.   The 'I' is a label for a conceptually 
constructed pattern representing an imaginary "autonomous little homunculus."  


> [Mark]
> You can substitute it with a bunch of words that you presented above,
> but that is just word substitution.

Marsha:
By substitution do you mean analogy?  


> [Mark]
> Give me a metaphor.  Are you a tornado or a standing wave or a whirlpool
> or a bubble traveling up a tank to be released into air?  (no, it wasn't a
> multiple choice question.).  Patterns exist outside of you, what makes these
> different from those within?

Marsha:
A pattern is a conceptually construct that may seem to represent a "thing" 
outside me, but I have not discovered such an independent entity.  I am 
aware of only process.  


>> Marsha:
>> I sense in mindfulness the ability to influence the process   But there
>> are many patterns within a given situation where I have no influence.
>> No, total freewill does not ring true, but influence does.
>> 
> 
> [Mark]
> Yes, I agree, free will but confined by a lot of rules.  We can bend, but we
> cannot make.

Marsha:
Agreement is good.    


>> Marsha:
>> When you use the word 'what' do you mean what independent self or
>> object is making the decision?  My answer could only be there is no
>> independent self or objects making the decision.   There is interrelated
>> static patterns of value and Dynamic Quality.
>> 
> 
> [Mark]
> Again we return to the sentence I present at the beginning, and I am not
> suggesting inherent arising, I am comfortable with codependent arising.  I
> am now stuck on experiencing.  Does this experience happen to anything?

Marsha:
Anything?  Thing?  No.  


> [Mark}
> Does the experience create something?  

Marsha:
Something?  Thing?  No.  


> Mark:
> Is the experience part of what you see yourself to be?  

Marsha:
Awareness finds only a flow of bits and pieces of static patterns of 
value with long and short periods nothingness in-between.  I think 
there is more to learn from this awareness, so I have no final 
answer to your question.  


> Mark:
> Is experience experiencing experience? (Wow, I don't
> think I have said that before).  Give me a clue of what you mean by
> experience.  What does it mean to you?

Marsha:
To borrow a term: suchness.    

> 
> \Cheers,
> Mark 


Thanksgiving cheers,

Marsha
 
 
 
 
  

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