[MD] a-theism and atheism

[rapsncows at fastmail.fm]

Ham,
cool,
Tim

First, I think that I was confused about our conversation, so I'm
sorry...  I was talking about the absolute only, and not a full
philosophy of human being.  Regarding the absolute, while I have been
thinking that perhaps we could have something to say about it, if we
really put our noses to it, I'm not prepared to say anything about it
yet.  Something-is.  If I never get passed this, I think it is okay.  of
Course we can ask, 'what is it?', but knowing is hard, and i don't see
how I can know anything greater than something-is.  I think that, for
me, knowledge is most useful if I always leave some room for the unknown
between my fundament (something-is) and my best working model.  If I can
find something about 'something-is' that must be, such that I can know
it as confidently as I know 'something-is', then that might help me in
some manner, but it will be internal to 'something-is'.  Something-is
will always be the greatest 'knowable'.  This is what I think about the
absolute.

But it is 'I' who thinks.  I don't really know what this 'I' is either,
Ham.  Somehow it persists.  I think this has something to do with my
choice to want it to persist, but it seems that I will never be able to
know all that I am.  Crazy.  But, everything that I know comes through
I.  So this makes the idea of 'I' as fundamental to anything pertaining
to me, such as my thoughts, as can be.  Relating 'I' to 'something-is'
may forever be beyond my ken.

So....  This 'I' relating with 'something-is' is as deep as I can go.  I
can't say anything about 'relating' either.  But this seems to work ---
That is: I have the sense of relating to other I's.

By relating I am maintained in something-is. (???)

Ham, 'I'ness seems more essential than value-sensing.  value-sensing
seems only to be one aspect of I-ness.  anyway, I don't see how you can
eliminate this perspective from the contention of what is essential.

> 
> [Ham] All philosophy is a search for what is real, Tim.  The first question to 
> address is: What is the essence of reality?

[Tim]
I think even saying 'this is the first question' shows that your I is
more fundamental than your first question.

> 
> [Ham] The individual cannot bring itself into existence, is not omniscient, and 
> does not possess absolute power.

[Tim]
I don't know where any of these came from: bring itself into
existence, omniscient!, absolute power???

> [Ham]  In fact, it [an 'I'] has no direct access to it's essential Source.

[Tim]
this is big.  I don't know how you can say this.

what intervenes?  How has essence been parted?



>[Ham]  Our very being is borrowed from the otherness of creation, and our awareness is but a 
> fleeting sensibility once removed from the Source.  Our only link to
> Essence is the Value of which we are sensible.  Simply put, the essence of every 
> human being is value-sensibiity.

[Tim]
I don't know how you can say the essence is not I-ness and interacting
with other I's.

> [Ham]  This affords us with a taste of Essence and enables us to experience otherness as a self-sufficient, ordered
> system of things and events in process that represent our value-sensibility.

[Tim]
if I take a really wide view of value-sensing...

> [Ham] The bottom line is: What you and I make of value-sensibility is our 
> being-in-the-world.

[Tim]
I prefer to see my choices, amidst other I's, as my being in the
collected
something-is.


> [Ham]  Of course there is more to Essentialism than can be presented in two paragraphs, as I am sure
> there is also for your worldview.

[Tim]
no.  not really.  I's have a really impressive forum in which to play. 
It doesn't go so well.

> [Ham] (If you've not already done so, I suggest that 
> you read my online thesis at www.essentialism.net/mechanic.htm for a 
> detailed exposition.  It should answer your question concerning "where
> you are" in my ontology.)

[Tim]
I did start it a few days back...  I intend to pick it back up
eventually.


> Happy Thanksgiving,
> Ham

I hope you had a nice Thanksgiving,
Tim
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