BTW Matt, Marsha, dmb, John, The bodyguard quote put me in mind of dmb as "Pirsig's Bulldog". Not "ill will" exactly, just instinctive aggression. The style is attack, counter-attack, and get your counter-attack in first if possible. Anyway, a million miles for Socrates, that's for sure. Ian BTW John, that Barbara Kingsolver (near) quote is magic.