[MD] Earth the Centre of the Universe

Ian Glendinning ian.glendinning at gmail.com
Wed Oct 20 04:49:21 PDT 2010 

Stanley Hauerwas .... is US top theologian .... hence the irony ?
http://stanleyhauerwas.blogspot.com/

Very interesting discussion with him on the BBC on Monday.
http://www.psybertron.org/?p=3582

Ian

On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:45 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>
> I do not know who Stanley Hauerwas is.
>
> Oh I was teasing this morning.  Kind of...  I have grown to respect
> your position more and more.  It is a middle way.  Maybe not what I
> always appreciate in the moment; I may snarl, but it is often the best
> choice.
>
> I don't suppose some know how very happy I am to be in this forum.
> I have no where else to go to talk of these matters.  I consider myself
> to be extremely fortunate.  -  Even my snarling skills have improved.
>
> Be well Ian.
>
>
> Marsha
>
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 20, 2010, at 7:28 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote:
>
>> That Marsha, is why I often say (sincerely) that I think you do really get it.
>>
>> You (like all of us) often bring an "attitude" to the particular
>> arguments with particular individuals on MD .... which gets you lashed
>> and ridiculed too.
>>
>> I my case the "attitude" would appear to be "cute" or "smart-ass" or
>> "superior & knowing" ;-) We all have our cross to bear, but in general
>> (with one lone exception) I believe (trust) we are all sincere.
>>
>> But that's only my opinion. BTW did you see the Stanley Hauerwas joke ?
>> "When Bush came to power I concluded he was sincere about his
>> Christian faith. I also concluded it showed how little sincerity had
>> to do with Christianity."
>>
>> Ian
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:11 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Ian,
>>>
>>> I see the hope in the enigma, that science is beyond "making sense."
>>> It might be a time for a paradigm shift in thinking.  There's hints and hope.
>>> I love the quantum micro and macro, though.  It's all very exciting as scientists
>>> become entangled in their own beliefs.
>>>
>>> There does seem to be a false dichotomy in the air:  objective science OR
>>> subjective god.  That's why I love and respect the MoQ and Buddhism..
>>> There's a better/middle way.  And why I go on about reification/som.  Break
>>> that habit and you have a whole new and improved game to play.  But, as
>>> I've read and know first-hand, it is a hard habit to break.  imho.
>>>
>>>
>>> Marsha
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 20, 2010, at 6:48 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote:
>>>
>>>> Marsha,
>>>>
>>>> DMB has his own agenda (and style of ridicule), in particular in this
>>>> context defending scientific rationality against anti-intellectual attacks
>>>> from the right, and spurious god / religion / theology arguments. There are
>>>> millions of people in that debate right now - my lone voice in support of
>>>> enlightened rationality will not be missed.
>>>>
>>>> I'm focussed on making science better (in whatever small ways I can) ...
>>>> better understand itself and its relation to the mythos ... so that it
>>>> doesn't fall into the idolatrous trap of absolute intellectual superiority
>>>> like any two-bit religion. (In doing so, I do risk appearing not to support
>>>> the first argument .... but nothing could be further from the truth.)
>>>>
>>>> If I wrote so dmb could understand me, I think our differences would be
>>>> purely tactical - choosing our battlegrounds.
>>>>
>>>> Standing by for DMB's ridicule.
>>>> Ian
>>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 11:35 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Geez, someone criticized Hawking in this forum and was soundly ridiculed
>>>>> by dmb?  I have watched all the Hawking dvd programs available; one more
>>>>> to go.  Find it important to know where I am pointing my skepticism.  -
>>>>> It's
>>>>> interesting story-telling.  Once upon a time there was singularity...
>>>>>
>>>>> Wallace's book was great!   -   I can only change myself, which may be the
>>>>> best way to assist social change.  When in public I _try_ to spread good
>>>>> cheer.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 20, 2010, at 6:21 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Agreed. Hawking (media superstar) is part of the problem of current day
>>>>>> science, all he can do is deepen the hole it's in.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Science will rise to its true position if it winds back 80 years or so.
>>>>> The
>>>>>> problem with science now is that it is (in its own mind and in public
>>>>>> consciousness and media generally) too exalted. Unfortunately, to be
>>>>> called
>>>>>> scientific is to be praised - hallelujah. Idolatry in action.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But - let's try and do something about it - do as we would be done by.
>>>>>> Look at the specific scientific error in the big bang stuff (I provided
>>>>> 10
>>>>>> or more links) ... and use it as an example to spread awareness of the
>>>>>> problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ian
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 11:05 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry.  I meant science.  It will take much more than
>>>>>>> Hawking hawking its theories to resurrect science to
>>>>>>> an exalted position.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 20, 2010, at 5:55 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Marsha,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Wallace book, I've heard of, but ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Resurrect "it" - what's "it" ?
>>>>>>>> Whose comments on what programme ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>> Ian
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 10:37 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ian,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Wallace book 'Choosing Reality' was enlightening.  It will take
>>>>>>>>> much more than a Hawking to resurrect it.  It's hard to keep from
>>>>>>>>> laughing at his program comments.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Oct 20, 2010, at 5:33 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If science is right it appears Copernicus was right all along, and
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> Earth
>>>>>>>>>> really is the centre of the universe.
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.psybertron.org/?p=3589
>>>>>>>>>> (Clue - science is wrong - shock, horror ;-o )
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ian
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