[MD] Earth the Centre of the Universe

MarshaV valkyr at att.net
Wed Oct 20 04:45:48 PDT 2010 

I do not know who Stanley Hauerwas is.  

Oh I was teasing this morning.  Kind of...  I have grown to respect 
your position more and more.  It is a middle way.  Maybe not what I 
always appreciate in the moment; I may snarl, but it is often the best 
choice.    

I don't suppose some know how very happy I am to be in this forum.  
I have no where else to go to talk of these matters.  I consider myself 
to be extremely fortunate.  -  Even my snarling skills have improved.  

Be well Ian.


Marsha 





On Oct 20, 2010, at 7:28 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote:

> That Marsha, is why I often say (sincerely) that I think you do really get it.
> 
> You (like all of us) often bring an "attitude" to the particular
> arguments with particular individuals on MD .... which gets you lashed
> and ridiculed too.
> 
> I my case the "attitude" would appear to be "cute" or "smart-ass" or
> "superior & knowing" ;-) We all have our cross to bear, but in general
> (with one lone exception) I believe (trust) we are all sincere.
> 
> But that's only my opinion. BTW did you see the Stanley Hauerwas joke ?
> "When Bush came to power I concluded he was sincere about his
> Christian faith. I also concluded it showed how little sincerity had
> to do with Christianity."
> 
> Ian
> 
> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:11 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Ian,
>> 
>> I see the hope in the enigma, that science is beyond "making sense."
>> It might be a time for a paradigm shift in thinking.  There's hints and hope.
>> I love the quantum micro and macro, though.  It's all very exciting as scientists
>> become entangled in their own beliefs.
>> 
>> There does seem to be a false dichotomy in the air:  objective science OR
>> subjective god.  That's why I love and respect the MoQ and Buddhism..
>> There's a better/middle way.  And why I go on about reification/som.  Break
>> that habit and you have a whole new and improved game to play.  But, as
>> I've read and know first-hand, it is a hard habit to break.  imho.
>> 
>> 
>> Marsha
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Oct 20, 2010, at 6:48 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote:
>> 
>>> Marsha,
>>> 
>>> DMB has his own agenda (and style of ridicule), in particular in this
>>> context defending scientific rationality against anti-intellectual attacks
>>> from the right, and spurious god / religion / theology arguments. There are
>>> millions of people in that debate right now - my lone voice in support of
>>> enlightened rationality will not be missed.
>>> 
>>> I'm focussed on making science better (in whatever small ways I can) ...
>>> better understand itself and its relation to the mythos ... so that it
>>> doesn't fall into the idolatrous trap of absolute intellectual superiority
>>> like any two-bit religion. (In doing so, I do risk appearing not to support
>>> the first argument .... but nothing could be further from the truth.)
>>> 
>>> If I wrote so dmb could understand me, I think our differences would be
>>> purely tactical - choosing our battlegrounds.
>>> 
>>> Standing by for DMB's ridicule.
>>> Ian
>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 11:35 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Geez, someone criticized Hawking in this forum and was soundly ridiculed
>>>> by dmb?  I have watched all the Hawking dvd programs available; one more
>>>> to go.  Find it important to know where I am pointing my skepticism.  -
>>>> It's
>>>> interesting story-telling.  Once upon a time there was singularity...
>>>> 
>>>> Wallace's book was great!   -   I can only change myself, which may be the
>>>> best way to assist social change.  When in public I _try_ to spread good
>>>> cheer.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Marsha
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Oct 20, 2010, at 6:21 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Agreed. Hawking (media superstar) is part of the problem of current day
>>>>> science, all he can do is deepen the hole it's in.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Science will rise to its true position if it winds back 80 years or so.
>>>> The
>>>>> problem with science now is that it is (in its own mind and in public
>>>>> consciousness and media generally) too exalted. Unfortunately, to be
>>>> called
>>>>> scientific is to be praised - hallelujah. Idolatry in action.
>>>>> 
>>>>> But - let's try and do something about it - do as we would be done by.
>>>>> Look at the specific scientific error in the big bang stuff (I provided
>>>> 10
>>>>> or more links) ... and use it as an example to spread awareness of the
>>>>> problem.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ian
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 11:05 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sorry.  I meant science.  It will take much more than
>>>>>> Hawking hawking its theories to resurrect science to
>>>>>> an exalted position.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Oct 20, 2010, at 5:55 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi Marsha,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The Wallace book, I've heard of, but ...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Resurrect "it" - what's "it" ?
>>>>>>> Whose comments on what programme ?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>> Ian
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 10:37 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Ian,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The Wallace book 'Choosing Reality' was enlightening.  It will take
>>>>>>>> much more than a Hawking to resurrect it.  It's hard to keep from
>>>>>>>> laughing at his program comments.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Oct 20, 2010, at 5:33 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> If science is right it appears Copernicus was right all along, and
>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Earth
>>>>>>>>> really is the centre of the universe.
>>>>>>>>> http://www.psybertron.org/?p=3589
>>>>>>>>> (Clue - science is wrong - shock, horror ;-o )
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Ian
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>>>>>>>> 
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