[MD] Earth the Centre of the Universe

[Ian Glendinning]

That Marsha, is why I often say (sincerely) that I think you do really get it.

You (like all of us) often bring an "attitude" to the particular
arguments with particular individuals on MD .... which gets you lashed
and ridiculed too.

I my case the "attitude" would appear to be "cute" or "smart-ass" or
"superior & knowing" ;-) We all have our cross to bear, but in general
(with one lone exception) I believe (trust) we are all sincere.

But that's only my opinion. BTW did you see the Stanley Hauerwas joke ?
"When Bush came to power I concluded he was sincere about his
Christian faith. I also concluded it showed how little sincerity had
to do with Christianity."

Ian

On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:11 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>
> Ian,
>
> I see the hope in the enigma, that science is beyond "making sense."
> It might be a time for a paradigm shift in thinking.  There's hints and hope.
> I love the quantum micro and macro, though.  It's all very exciting as scientists
> become entangled in their own beliefs.
>
> There does seem to be a false dichotomy in the air:  objective science OR
> subjective god.  That's why I love and respect the MoQ and Buddhism..
> There's a better/middle way.  And why I go on about reification/som.  Break
> that habit and you have a whole new and improved game to play.  But, as
> I've read and know first-hand, it is a hard habit to break.  imho.
>
>
> Marsha
>
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 20, 2010, at 6:48 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote:
>
> > Marsha,
> >
> > DMB has his own agenda (and style of ridicule), in particular in this
> > context defending scientific rationality against anti-intellectual attacks
> > from the right, and spurious god / religion / theology arguments. There are
> > millions of people in that debate right now - my lone voice in support of
> > enlightened rationality will not be missed.
> >
> > I'm focussed on making science better (in whatever small ways I can) ...
> > better understand itself and its relation to the mythos ... so that it
> > doesn't fall into the idolatrous trap of absolute intellectual superiority
> > like any two-bit religion. (In doing so, I do risk appearing not to support
> > the first argument .... but nothing could be further from the truth.)
> >
> > If I wrote so dmb could understand me, I think our differences would be
> > purely tactical - choosing our battlegrounds.
> >
> > Standing by for DMB's ridicule.
> > Ian
> > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 11:35 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Geez, someone criticized Hawking in this forum and was soundly ridiculed
> >> by dmb?  I have watched all the Hawking dvd programs available; one more
> >> to go.  Find it important to know where I am pointing my skepticism.  -
> >> It's
> >> interesting story-telling.  Once upon a time there was singularity...
> >>
> >> Wallace's book was great!   -   I can only change myself, which may be the
> >> best way to assist social change.  When in public I _try_ to spread good
> >> cheer.
> >>
> >>
> >> Marsha
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Oct 20, 2010, at 6:21 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote:
> >>
> >>> Agreed. Hawking (media superstar) is part of the problem of current day
> >>> science, all he can do is deepen the hole it's in.
> >>>
> >>> Science will rise to its true position if it winds back 80 years or so.
> >> The
> >>> problem with science now is that it is (in its own mind and in public
> >>> consciousness and media generally) too exalted. Unfortunately, to be
> >> called
> >>> scientific is to be praised - hallelujah. Idolatry in action.
> >>>
> >>> But - let's try and do something about it - do as we would be done by.
> >>> Look at the specific scientific error in the big bang stuff (I provided
> >> 10
> >>> or more links) ... and use it as an example to spread awareness of the
> >>> problem.
> >>>
> >>> Ian
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 11:05 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Sorry.  I meant science.  It will take much more than
> >>>> Hawking hawking its theories to resurrect science to
> >>>> an exalted position.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Oct 20, 2010, at 5:55 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi Marsha,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The Wallace book, I've heard of, but ...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Resurrect "it" - what's "it" ?
> >>>>> Whose comments on what programme ?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards
> >>>>> Ian
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 10:37 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ian,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The Wallace book 'Choosing Reality' was enlightening.  It will take
> >>>>>> much more than a Hawking to resurrect it.  It's hard to keep from
> >>>>>> laughing at his program comments.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Marsha
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Oct 20, 2010, at 5:33 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If science is right it appears Copernicus was right all along, and
> >> the
> >>>>>> Earth
> >>>>>>> really is the centre of the universe.
> >>>>>>> http://www.psybertron.org/?p=3589
> >>>>>>> (Clue - science is wrong - shock, horror ;-o )
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Ian
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