[MD] Earth the Centre of the Universe

Wed Oct 20 04:11:32 PDT 2010

Ian,

I see the hope in the enigma, that science is beyond "making sense."    
It might be a time for a paradigm shift in thinking.  There's hints and hope.  
I love the quantum micro and macro, though.  It's all very exciting as scientists 
become entangled in their own beliefs.  

There does seem to be a false dichotomy in the air:  objective science OR 
subjective god.  That's why I love and respect the MoQ and Buddhism..
There's a better/middle way.  And why I go on about reification/som.  Break 
that habit and you have a whole new and improved game to play.  But, as 
I've read and know first-hand, it is a hard habit to break.  imho.  

Marsha  

On Oct 20, 2010, at 6:48 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote:

> Marsha,
> 
> DMB has his own agenda (and style of ridicule), in particular in this
> context defending scientific rationality against anti-intellectual attacks
> from the right, and spurious god / religion / theology arguments. There are
> millions of people in that debate right now - my lone voice in support of
> enlightened rationality will not be missed.
> 
> I'm focussed on making science better (in whatever small ways I can) ...
> better understand itself and its relation to the mythos ... so that it
> doesn't fall into the idolatrous trap of absolute intellectual superiority
> like any two-bit religion. (In doing so, I do risk appearing not to support
> the first argument .... but nothing could be further from the truth.)
> 
> If I wrote so dmb could understand me, I think our differences would be
> purely tactical - choosing our battlegrounds.
> 
> Standing by for DMB's ridicule.
> Ian
> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 11:35 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Geez, someone criticized Hawking in this forum and was soundly ridiculed
>> by dmb?  I have watched all the Hawking dvd programs available; one more
>> to go.  Find it important to know where I am pointing my skepticism.  -
>> It's
>> interesting story-telling.  Once upon a time there was singularity...
>> 
>> Wallace's book was great!   -   I can only change myself, which may be the
>> best way to assist social change.  When in public I _try_ to spread good
>> cheer.
>> 
>> 
>> Marsha
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Oct 20, 2010, at 6:21 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote:
>> 
>>> Agreed. Hawking (media superstar) is part of the problem of current day
>>> science, all he can do is deepen the hole it's in.
>>> 
>>> Science will rise to its true position if it winds back 80 years or so.
>> The
>>> problem with science now is that it is (in its own mind and in public
>>> consciousness and media generally) too exalted. Unfortunately, to be
>> called
>>> scientific is to be praised - hallelujah. Idolatry in action.
>>> 
>>> But - let's try and do something about it - do as we would be done by.
>>> Look at the specific scientific error in the big bang stuff (I provided
>> 10
>>> or more links) ... and use it as an example to spread awareness of the
>>> problem.
>>> 
>>> Ian
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 11:05 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sorry.  I meant science.  It will take much more than
>>>> Hawking hawking its theories to resurrect science to
>>>> an exalted position.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Oct 20, 2010, at 5:55 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Marsha,
>>>>> 
>>>>> The Wallace book, I've heard of, but ...
>>>>> 
>>>>> Resurrect "it" - what's "it" ?
>>>>> Whose comments on what programme ?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Ian
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 10:37 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ian,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The Wallace book 'Choosing Reality' was enlightening.  It will take
>>>>>> much more than a Hawking to resurrect it.  It's hard to keep from
>>>>>> laughing at his program comments.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Oct 20, 2010, at 5:33 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If science is right it appears Copernicus was right all along, and
>> the
>>>>>> Earth
>>>>>>> really is the centre of the universe.
>>>>>>> http://www.psybertron.org/?p=3589
>>>>>>> (Clue - science is wrong - shock, horror ;-o )
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Ian
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