[MD] Step One

[Dan Glover]

Hello everyone

On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 2:21 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>
> On Oct 19, 2010, at 4:55 PM, Dan Glover wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:30 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Oct 19, 2010, at 12:48 PM, 118 wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 7:29 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 19, 2010, at 10:23 AM, Dan Glover wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello everyone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 4:26 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 18, 2010, at 11:39 PM, Dan Glover wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dan:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The intellectual level is just thinking, plain and simple. You know
>>>>> that, John.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marsha:
>>>>>>> Aren't all patterns conceptually constructed?  Wouldn't that make all
>>>>> levels "just thinking?"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Marsha
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would say that within the framework of the MOQ, inorganic and
>>>>>> biological patterns are physical. We can touch them, examine them.
>>>>>> Social and intellectual patterns are mental... like the President of
>>>>>> the United States. There is no way to physically tell the President
>>>>>> apart from any other human being by examination. So to answer your
>>>>>> question, no, not all levels are "just thinking." In addition, there
>>>>>> seem to social patterns of value that are not intellectual, like
>>>>>> saying "Bless you" when someone sneezes. Those types of patterns are
>>>>>> ingrained in us to the extent that we really don't think about it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan,
>>>>>
>>>>> If I think "Should I say "Bless you." to this guy." does that make it an
>>>>> intellectual static pattern of value or a social static pattern of value?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mark:
>>>> Yes.
>>>
>>>
>>> Marsha:
>>> And the notion that the Intellectual Level represent theology, science, philosophy
>>> and mathematics has collapsed into thinking about whether to say "Bless you.",
>>> or not?   No, I don't buy that.
>>
>> Hi Marsha
>>
>> Sometimes in order to make the complicated a bit simpler, we start
>> small. I mean, there are only four levels and they contain everything
>> (except Dynamic Quality), so obviously we are using analogy here to
>> order our understanding of reality. Theology, science, philosophy and
>> mathematics are made up of both social and intellectual pattens. They
>> are often cultural-specific, as Robert Pirsig points out.
>>
>> I hope that helps.
>>
>> Dan
>
>
>
> Hi Dan,
>
> Marsha:
> In Anthony's PhD it states that science theology, mathematics and philosophy are
> intellectual quality patterns. So here's my understanding of the Intellectual Level:
>
> The Intellectual Level, the fourth level, is comprised of static patterns of value such
> as science theology, mathematics and philosophy. The way that these patterns
> function is as reified concepts and the rules for their rational analysis and manipulation.
> Reification decontextualizes.  Intellectual patterns process from a subject/object
> conceptual framework creating false boundaries that give the illusion of independence
> as a “thing” or an “object of analysis.”  The fourth level is a formalized subject/object
> level (SOM), where the paramount demand is for rational, objective knowledge, which
> is free from the taint of any subjectivity like emotions, inclinations, fears and compulsions
> in order to pursue study and research in an unbiased and rational manner.

Hi Marsha

You almost had me. I actually thought you might be getting it. But
then you have to throw a monkey wrench into the works and foul it all
up. Where in Anthony's work does it say the intellectual level is a
formalized SOM? Anywhere? Or are you like Bo, just picking and
choosing what you agree with? Maybe you and John and get together and
relive the old times.

Why do I bother?

Dan

>
> All patterns are interdependent so naturally there would be a relationship with social
> level patterns.
>
>
> Marsha
>
>
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