[MD] The Dynamics of Value

[Alexander Jarnroth]

Interesting approach. But just what kinds of words were you considering?

/A

-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of 118
Sent: den 26 oktober 2010 18:56
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] The Dynamics of Value

Hi A,

Yes, I think you make a good point.  The mathematics of language is
something that I am interested in.  The Qabalah deals with this, so I have
been studying its principles in a superficial way.  In this way I can get a
better understanding of such a thing.  Recently in a series of exchanges
between Ham and me, the formulation of Quality was brought up.  The idea was
to assign constants, variables, and operators to terms in MOQ.  The approach
would be similar to the one physics uses to describe the universe.  They are
all analogies, and there may be ways to make the two approaches, verbal and
mathematical, interchangeable.  It does get tricky because of the different
formulations used by each person in the definition of words.  This is kind
of where we got stuck.

Cheers,
Mark

On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 2:58 AM, Alexander Jarnroth <
alexander.jarnroth at comhem.se> wrote:

> I would rather say that "a logic" is a specified way of assigning 
> relationships among what is termed "entities". In formal logic, which 
> is a Boolean algebra, as mentioned in another context, you have the 
> two operators, or relationships, "and" and "or" - entities which 
> values can either be one (unity) or zero (that is true or false) - and 
> the complement
> (negation) to a given statement. Implications, that is "if p then 
> q"-statements, could be viewed as "not-p or q".
> I think these other logics are intelligible enough to be termed "logics"
> even though you can't formalize them in the same way.
>
> I came, however, to think about another thing concerning labels and 
> values, in the case, though, in relation to set theory, which is 
> equivalent to formal logic. But to put it simple, arithmetic concerns 
> values, but algebra concerns labels. So you could say that you assign 
> labels, then abstract them, perform operations on them, and then you 
> could reassign values to the labels any way you want. Thus, a 
> mathematic concept derived from some setting, could most often find 
> applications in other quite different contexts.
> Talking about other values, these abstract concepts must be 
> intellectual values, but also, somehow, correspondence to other 
> values: Boolean algebra being a good example.
> With words, however, it's quite different, because if you try to do 
> the same with words you would get the logic of poetics, which have a 
> social meaning, but most often lack correspondences to the outside of 
> the social sphere (but perhaps not, if combined with the logic of 
> practice, which would be a kind of expressive mapping from the 
> psychosocial sphere to the external world).
> I think there actually can be some things into this. Pirsig himself 
> tries to use the logic of poetics in some of his work (this 
> reconstructed Indo-European being rather poetic, than etymological - 
> probably there has never actually been anything like 
> "proto-Indo-European" - it's just a constructed set of references, 
> which could be useful in comparative linguistics).
>
> /A
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of 118
> Sent: den 26 oktober 2010 01:18
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] The Dynamics of Value
>
> Hi A,
>
> Thanks for the response and wonderful ideas.
>
> Yes, I do not want to get into how logic can be defined, so I use it 
> only in terms of its cause and effect, or if/then, as directed by 
> words based on assumptions.  I suppose one could describe a type of 
> logic coming from poetry, but I prefer just to use such a term in its 
> quasi-scientific sense.
>  Ritual could be interpreted as logical but, this just confuses things 
> for me.  Of course, that is limiting the definition, but just makes it
simpler.
>  Other kinds of logic can certainly contain a modifier such as you 
> present with the term poetic logic.
>
> We have discussed memes in this forum, but I don't think anyone has 
> brought up Falon Gong, but I have to say, I have not read the complete 
> history of MOQ.  For me labeling can be seen as posts in the ground 
> which are then interconnected with strings to form a web.  And what a
beautiful web it is!
>  The important thing for me to keep in mind, is that in the end, this 
> web is not connected to anything, but floating and growing on its own.  
> And, of course, what is the spider?
>
> The web itself is based on so called intuition.  The view I take is 
> that all subject object metaphysics is indeed fruitful in terms of 
> creating meaning and thus imparting reconciliation with what we are 
> presented with.
>  However,
> it should be viewed in that context and not pretend to be something more.
>  We are dealing with analogies and analogies of analogies.  Yes, 
> technology should not be abandoned, we are still in primitive times 
> and have only just begun.  We do, however, need to take a break now 
> and again, and let wisdom catch up.
>
> You will also notice that sometimes Quality is brought in to justify 
> certain views or systems rather than to describe them.  I believe this 
> should also be viewed with skepticism.
>
> Cheers,
> Mark
>
>
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