[MD] The Dynamics of Value

[118]

Hi A,

Yes, I think you make a good point.  The mathematics of language is
something that I am interested in.  The Qabalah deals with this, so I have
been studying its principles in a superficial way.  In this way I can get a
better understanding of such a thing.  Recently in a series of exchanges
between Ham and me, the formulation of Quality was brought up.  The idea was
to assign constants, variables, and operators to terms in MOQ.  The approach
would be similar to the one physics uses to describe the universe.  They are
all analogies, and there may be ways to make the two approaches, verbal and
mathematical, interchangeable.  It does get tricky because of the different
formulations used by each person in the definition of words.  This is kind
of where we got stuck.

Cheers,
Mark

On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 2:58 AM, Alexander Jarnroth <
alexander.jarnroth at comhem.se> wrote:

> I would rather say that "a logic" is a specified way of assigning
> relationships among what is termed "entities". In formal logic, which is a
> Boolean algebra, as mentioned in another context, you have the two
> operators, or relationships, "and" and "or" - entities which values can
> either be one (unity) or zero (that is true or false) - and the complement
> (negation) to a given statement. Implications, that is "if p then
> q"-statements, could be viewed as "not-p or q".
> I think these other logics are intelligible enough to be termed "logics"
> even though you can't formalize them in the same way.
>
> I came, however, to think about another thing concerning labels and values,
> in the case, though, in relation to set theory, which is equivalent to
> formal logic. But to put it simple, arithmetic concerns values, but algebra
> concerns labels. So you could say that you assign labels, then abstract
> them, perform operations on them, and then you could reassign values to the
> labels any way you want. Thus, a mathematic concept derived from some
> setting, could most often find applications in other quite different
> contexts.
> Talking about other values, these abstract concepts must be intellectual
> values, but also, somehow, correspondence to other values: Boolean algebra
> being a good example.
> With words, however, it's quite different, because if you try to do the
> same
> with words you would get the logic of poetics, which have a social meaning,
> but most often lack correspondences to the outside of the social sphere
> (but
> perhaps not, if combined with the logic of practice, which would be a kind
> of expressive mapping from the psychosocial sphere to the external world).
> I think there actually can be some things into this. Pirsig himself tries
> to
> use the logic of poetics in some of his work (this reconstructed
> Indo-European being rather poetic, than etymological - probably there has
> never actually been anything like "proto-Indo-European" - it's just a
> constructed set of references, which could be useful in comparative
> linguistics).
>
> /A
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of 118
> Sent: den 26 oktober 2010 01:18
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] The Dynamics of Value
>
> Hi A,
>
> Thanks for the response and wonderful ideas.
>
> Yes, I do not want to get into how logic can be defined, so I use it only
> in
> terms of its cause and effect, or if/then, as directed by words based on
> assumptions.  I suppose one could describe a type of logic coming from
> poetry, but I prefer just to use such a term in its quasi-scientific sense.
>  Ritual could be interpreted as logical but, this just confuses things for
> me.  Of course, that is limiting the definition, but just makes it simpler.
>  Other kinds of logic can certainly contain a modifier such as you present
> with the term poetic logic.
>
> We have discussed memes in this forum, but I don't think anyone has brought
> up Falon Gong, but I have to say, I have not read the complete history of
> MOQ.  For me labeling can be seen as posts in the ground which are then
> interconnected with strings to form a web.  And what a beautiful web it is!
>  The important thing for me to keep in mind, is that in the end, this web
> is
> not connected to anything, but floating and growing on its own.  And, of
> course, what is the spider?
>
> The web itself is based on so called intuition.  The view I take is that
> all
> subject object metaphysics is indeed fruitful in terms of creating meaning
> and thus imparting reconciliation with what we are presented with.
>  However,
> it should be viewed in that context and not pretend to be something more.
>  We are dealing with analogies and analogies of analogies.  Yes, technology
> should not be abandoned, we are still in primitive times and have only just
> begun.  We do, however, need to take a break now and again, and let wisdom
> catch up.
>
> You will also notice that sometimes Quality is brought in to justify
> certain
> views or systems rather than to describe them.  I believe this should also
> be viewed with skepticism.
>
> Cheers,
> Mark
>
>
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