[MD] Science - Delusions in Search of Theory

[118]

Hi Horse,

Yes, I agree, the MoQ is a product of the intellect and could not exist
prior to its creation.  This does not mean that the potential for such
creation did not exist, which is just splitting hairs.

The peyote experience demonstrates the fragility of intellectual concepts.
 Such psychedelic substance interfere with rational thought, and indeed open
up other possibilities.  Such chemical manipulation is of course not
necessary, but does open the minds of those who are set in their ways.
 Those things conceived under chemical hypnosis are just as real as what was
experienced before.  The fabric of the intellect is a creation which
continues to grow.  It can grow in many meaningful directions.  The problem
arises, as Phaedrus suggests, when such concepts are relegated to the realm
of Truth.

Cheers,
Mark

On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 9:36 AM, Horse <horse at darkstar.uk.net> wrote:

>  Hi Platt
>
> If SOM didn't exist before Pirsig named it (as you assert is the case) then
> how could DQ or SQ exist before the MoQ?
> The MoQ, DQ and SQ are introduced to the world in Lila which came out
> around 1990.
> SQ and DQ are part and parcel of the MoQ which didn't exist at the time
> that Pirsig had his peyote experience - which was prior to him creating ZMM
> or Lila.
> If neither DQ/SQ or MoQ existed at this time then critical thinking, not DQ
> or SQ, followed from the peyote experience and was part of the process which
> led to the creation of the MoQ and the DQ/SQ split.
>
> Horse
>
> On 29/10/2010 17:10, Platt Holden wrote:
>
>> Hi Horse,
>>
>> I see the time line differently:
>>
>> peyote-breakdown of static intellectual patterns allowing DQ to break
>> through to reveal a new pattern ->  thinking to name and latch new pattern
>> ->
>> more responses to DQ ->  more thinking and latching ->  more responses to
>> DQ,
>> etc., etc. ->  MoQ (DQ/SQ).
>>
>> Platt
>>
>>
> On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 11:05 AM, Horse<horse at darkstar.uk.net>  wrote:
>
>
>  >    Hi Platt and Arlo
>> >
>> >  To be picky about this and given Platt's previous assertion that SOM
>> didn't
>> >  exist until Pirsig described it, the time-line should be something
>> like:
>> >
>> >  peyote-inspired revelation ->   critical thinking ->   MoQ ->   DQ/SQ
>> >
>> >  or something very similar. Neither MoQ nor DQ existed until after the
>> >  critical thinking stage!
>> >
>> >  Horse
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production
> deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid."
> — Frank Zappa
>
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