[MD] Reifying carrots - corrected

[Andre Broersen]

  dmb to Marsha:

But they did. And so it's obviously NOT impossible. We are not 
hopelessly trapped inside SOM or forever doomed to reify all our 
concepts. The patient is not identical to his disease. If the patient is 
inherently diseased or if the defect defines the intellect, then 
Pirsig's aim of expanding and improving rationality would fail before it 
even got started. Your view not only dismisses the MOQ's solution, 
you've ruled it out as impossible in principle. To say this undermines 
Pirsig's work is actually quite an understatement, unless one uses 
"undermine" in the original military sense, as part of a siege.

Andre:
Thank you for this dmb, it is nice to feel (also intellectually!) that I 
am not alone in this. I must be honest and say that I get tears in my 
eyes sometimes (in utter desperation), when also in conversation with 
Bodvar, it was about the raping (I have no other word for it) of Mr. 
Pirsig's ideas in his two books and subsequent appearances on dvd, tape 
and papers.

The seemingly total misapprehension of what the man is on about.

And then, having the audacity to use one's own preconceived ideas to 
interpret ZMM and LILA and then, based on these self same ideas, to 
criticize the man, is very disheartening to say the least.

Empty the cup before you start on anything new. There are some on this 
list who mix their already filled cup with MOQ stuff. You cannot do 
this. It leads to misapprehensions and blaming Mr. Pirsig for things he 
is NOT responsible for. You have to take a fresh approach. This takes 
guts. This means throwing away loads of static patterns.It means 
uncertainty, it means wobbling, it means throwing yourself in the deep 
end of experience...it means complete honesty with yourself. This is 
some bastard of a confrontation! As John mentioned some time ago: 
metaphysics is not for sissies. Well, certainly the MOQ is not.......... 
and at the same time it is. It is home.

Design you cup-MOQ and throw all the past SOM constructed entities 
therein and see for yourself what is left after the sifting. As I 
mentioned before, this is what I had hoped this discuss would be about. 
I am truly glad that some people are listening and responding.