[MD] Head, heart & hands

Ian ian.glendinning at gmail.com
Mon Sep 13 10:16:07 PDT 2010 

Hi John, when the emotions settle, I'd like to argue with opensource  
society being the magic bullet - we're having too much of a good  
thing. For now we agree, full public disclosure isn't everything you  
said, I said not all dirty washing should be aired in public. Shame is  
not the issue.
Ian

Sent from my iPhone

On 13 Sep 2010, at 19:01, John Carl <ridgecoyote at gmail.com> wrote:

> I agree with you Marsha, although with my own perspective and a bit  
> of extra
> intensity.  I think in all things that ultimately, an open source  
> society
> holds the key to many ills.  Men hide because of shame.  With no  
> shame,
> there is no hiding.  And in an interesting way, if you stop hiding,  
> you stop
> being ashamed.  It's actually healing.  And I'm a big fan.
>
> Not that "full disclosure" is always the Quality thing to do.   
> Heavens no!
> Nobody is interested in anyone else's bowel movements.... (well I  
> dunno,
> maybe frank...)  you gotta pick and choose for goodness sake.  Try  
> and stick
> to what's important.  That's my motto.
>
> Right now moving my family out of our domicile of 18 years is much  
> on MY
> mind.  Talk about changing static patterns!  I wonder if part of the  
> reason
> I've driven them all out is so they can get at least a small taste  
> of that
> scourge of mine and Lu's early existence, moving a lot.
>
> With her it was really horrendous, what with the continent-hopping  
> cultural
> shifts from Industrial England, to Africa, to Mauritius and then  
> back to
> England, then New Jersey, then the strangest continent of all -  
> California.
>
> So it's reasonable to see how she especially wanted to stay put for  
> a while,
> even past the stage of reasonableness.
>
>
> Packin' John
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 4:33 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 13, 2010, at 7:23 AM, Ian wrote:
>>
>>> No I don't think it' particularly British. If I was to generalize, I
>> might say it was oriental - avoiding embarassing the people you  
>> deal with -
>> I happen to think it's actually a human trait. And don't forget  
>> it's only an
>> adage, not an axiom.
>>>
>>> First reaction should be to tackle personal difficulties,  
>>> personally.
>> But, that's not a cover for opression or hegemony. Anyone having  
>> their
>> "heart" ignored has a right to make their argument public, but  
>> that's not
>> the same as saying all dirty washing should be aired in public.
>>>
>>> I happen to see making private contact as a sign of effort -  
>>> interpreting
>> as Machiavellian or manipulative is in the eyes of a recipient with
>> attitude, rather than the sender, 9 times out of 10.
>>>
>>> Ian
>>
>>
>> Ian,
>>
>> Not all private contact is a sign of effort.  Some of it is mean- 
>> spirited.
>>  Maybe in this case it shouldn't have been my call, but...
>>
>> After my husband died I hooked up with a group of people I really  
>> liked.
>> They were each really good and interesting individuals, but after a  
>> year
>> they all seemed to have something negative to say about other group  
>> members
>> 'in private'.   Like I said, not all private contact is a sign of  
>> effort.
>>
>>
>> Marsha
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 13 Sep 2010, at 12:01, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hey Ian,
>>>>
>>>> Not meaning to offend, isn't your "Bad news in private, good news  
>>>> in
>> public" an English (My mother's side is English.) perspective.  If  
>> you were
>> from a southern European country, might your perspective be  
>> different?  And
>> I remember during the 1970s, there was a prominent slogan within  
>> the Women's
>> Movement that the personal was political.  Being of German/English  
>> heritage,
>> I can suffer greatly for exposing my feelings.
>>>>
>>>> Marsha
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 13, 2010, at 6:16 AM, Ian wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Marsha, John, I hate to be the one defending dmb but offlist  
>>>>> traffic is
>> good, when the subject matter is personal, for anyone concerned with
>> positive progress over damaging individuals.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bad news in private, good news in public is my own working  
>>>>> adage, and
>> offlist mail is not unusual for you either Marsha, which is the  
>> only reason
>> you were mentioned ?
>>>>>
>>>>> DMB's style is dmb's style, on or offlist. Like his style or  
>>>>> not, he's
>> consistent.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ian
>>>>>
>>>>
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