[MD] The MOQ differemce

[MarshaV]

On Sep 24, 2010, at 10:28 AM, plattholden at gmail.com wrote:

> 
> 
> Platt:
> "I like" is a synonym for "I value." It moves the world. I especially value 
> Bacon's idea of starting out with an undefined overall image (DQ) and work 
> toward defining it (SQ) during the painting process.How many times have I 
> started a painting with great hopes only to make a mess of it. But, sometimes 
> things happen as I originally intended, making all the failures (low value) 
> worthwhile (high value).. 
> 
> On Sep 23, 2010, at 5:08 PM, plattholden at gmail.com wrote:
> 
>> All:
>> 
>> SOM axiom: "There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
>> 
>> MOQ axiom: Everything is good or bad before thinking at all.
>> 
>> We can see what the MOQ is up against -- Pirsig vs. Shakespeare, a far out idea 
>> vs.conventional wisdom. 
>> 
>> Do the levels get in the way of Pirsig's Copernican revolution?
> 
> Marsha:
> The levels seem genius to me, a very modern bridge.
> 
> Platt:
> Genius, true. But perhaps overplayed in trying to appease the SOMists.    

Marsha:
It may seem that way sometimes, but MoQ'ers are ultra-concentrated within the 
topic.  It's hard for us to see with fresh eyes.  For someone new, it may be a key 
to understanding.  For me it was patterns, for someone else it may be evolution.  


> 
>> Does he cater too much to SOM thinking?
> 
> Marsha:
> No.  For me it is all about breaking down subject/object reality to move beyond 
> it.  It is "absolutely" the most important thing.  Patterns are fascinating, 
> like vortexes of experience.
> 
> Platt:
> "Patterns" bother me. They presume subjects looking at ordered objects. Even 
> "experience" suggests the S/O division. Instead I would like to see "valuing" 
> substituted for "experience," "consciousness," "awareness" and "perception." -- 
> valuing Dynamically (creatively) or statically (predictably). Then the world of 
> things become static values and the act of painting becomes Dynamic.value 
> creation, motivated by betterness. 

Marsha:
'Subjects looking' is a patterned way of thinking.  No such thing; only static 
patterns of value moving through a field of DQ.  The value is held together 
by repetition through time and across individuals.  At least that 's how I 
understand.  Lila is an accumulation of ever-changing patterns intersecting 
with DQ.  For me painting can be static or dynamic, depending.  I liked that 
Bacon said, "The paintings should be a re-creation of an event rather than a 
reproduction of an object."  That seems a dynamic approach.  

Betterness?  Again I wonder about Bacon's disturbing images 're-creating suffering'. 
I wonder about doing that.  Is there betternerss in painting suffering?  Maybe it's best 
not to think about it - just paint.  


> 
>> How can we here promote the "artistic consciousness" that precedes thought that 
>> gives us the delight of life? 
> 
> Marsha:
> Good question.  I remember SA having started a thread of haiku poems.  Even to 
> try was a movement towards understanding.  Who didn't try?
> 
> Platt:
> Yes, that's the ticket. Dynamic creation of value within a static value 
> framework.   
> 
>> Besides great sex I mean.
> 
> Marsha:
> Hmmmm.   
> 
> Platt;
> Is that an expression of afterglow?
> 

Marsha:
Is there an e-motive to represent 'I demure'.'   


 
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