[MD] Dans Bitterness over Betterness

[Horse]

Hi Arlo

MoQ static patterns are no more or less real than subjects and objects 
(in my view) - they are used to represent experience and not experience 
itself (DQ).
Both static patterns and subjects and objects are 'real' in the sense 
that they represent how we make sense of what we experience.
The example I gave of a rainbow a while back illustrates this well
If we stood next to each other somewhere and observed a rainbow we would 
both be observing different rainbows but we would (probably) agree that 
it was the same rainbow we were observing. We could photograph it and 
compare the results and they would agree that we experienced the same 
thing. But the rainbow exists as a result of different phenomena in 
relation to our positions - not as something 'real' some distance from 
where we stand. It's an optical illusion in the same way that we 
experience other illusions - as static patterns.

Horse


On 29/04/2011 15:39, Arlo Bensinger wrote:
> [Horse]
> Illusions exist - they just aren't what we assume they are. They are 
> representations of reality, not reality itself.
>
> [Arlo]
> I had understood the "illusion" to be the primacy of subjects and 
> objects. Within a MOQ, patterns are "real", but that reality is 
> defined empirically, or experientially, or pragmatically, rather than 
> existentially.
>
> So within a MOQ framework, I don't know if I'd say anything like 
> "static patterns are illusions", I'd say the opposite, that "static 
> patterns are real", its the "S/O" primacy that has defined what "real" 
> meant that is the illusion, and saying "patterns are real" is an 
> empirical statement and not an existential one.
>
> In other words, if we are talking about "subjects" and "objects", we'd 
> call them "illusions" because they are the fallout of the greater S/O 
> fallacy. In this case, the illusion is that they exist independently 
> or existentially apart from experiential value.
>
> But if we are talking about "MOQ patterns", and we understand how a 
> MOQ reconceptualizes the meaning of "real", then I'd say they are not 
> illusions, but that these patterns are quite real.
>
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