[MD] Freedom within structure.

[Steven Peterson]

Hi Dan,


>>> dmb says:
>>> If Pirsig can reject the Cartesian self or SOM's self and STILL say that one's behavior is free to some extent, then why can't we?
>>
>> Steve:
>> Sure, one can _say_ it, but is it true, and what does it even mean to say so?
>>
>> I noticed that quote too when I read the NY Times article, and I was
>> struck by the fact that he doesn't talk about choice but rather
>> perception.
>>
>> dmb:
>> I mean, don't the Pirsig quotes prove that the question of free will
>> can be answered without committing yourself to the metaphysical
>> framework we've already rejected? The question of freedom is still a
>> question about you and your life, don't you think?
>>
>>
>> Steve:
>> Well now you slipped free _will_ into this picture where Pirsig talked
>> behavior and perception rather than _will_ being free.
>>
>> I can't make much of his claim "To the extent that you perceive
>> dynamic quality, you make your own life." To what extent _do_ we
>> perceive dynamic quality?
>
> Dan:
>
> To the extent that we put static patterns to sleep by learning to
> ignore them. Meditation is one possible path.
>
>>How could we behave so as to perceive more
>> or less of it?
>
> By doing what we love versus doing what we are told.
>
>>If dynamic quality is the leading edge of experience,
>> how does anyone _not_ perceive it?
>
> By covering "it" up. By intellectualizing "it" away.
>
>>Why does he see perception rather
>> than will as the key to human freedom where most philosophers of the
>> past have been concerned with a particular sort of the capacity to
>> choose?
>
> Perception is Dynamic. Will is seen as an illusion in the MOQ.
>
>> Unfortunately, rather than shed light one the matter, for me
>> this quote just muddles things further.
>
> You think too much.


I had been planning to respond as I was reading until I came to your
conclusion: "You think too much." One of the reasons I love the MD is
because it is usually the last place in my world where I expect to
encounter such anti-intellectual conversation stoppers. I assume you
meant it in some other way, but I don't know how to proceed since I am
not sure how you meant it.

Anyway, I am glad you agree that willed choice is not the locus of
human freedom in the MOQ.

Best,
Steve