[MD] Dicks and limits

[rapsncows at fastmail.fm]

John, all,

I'll have time to read this a bit later, but I justw wanted to say one
quick thing about limits.  Even "thank you" has a limit!

I am only Tim,
Thanks all.

On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:31:32 -0800, "John Carl" <ridgecoyote at gmail.com>
said:
> Tim,
> 
> I really appreciate this.  I'm going to try and do your concerns justice
> in
> a line by line fashion, so I don't miss any of your points.  I think you
> are
> off-base in a couple of areas, but don't let that take away from my
> appreciation of your central point, which reveals a deep caring.
> 
> 
> > I have been lying in bed trying to sleep, and I've thought of two things
> > that I want to get off my chest.
> >
> >
> I lay away and think about MD too.  Such engagement with the process is
> what
> gives me hope in the end and keeps me trying, even when it doesn't seem
> to
> be going anywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> > A long while back you had said something very much like: getting a man
> > to change the way he talks/interacts is like trying to make an ugly guy
> > handsome.  The second thing you said pretty recently, it was something
> > like: dmb, I will never butt into one of your conversations without your
> > wanting me to do so, ever again.  Both are related; and both would be a
> > big problem I think if they went unchecked ----- that is, sometimes you
> > have to put the wall right in front of you, on purpose.  We do not
> > choose our biology; in fact, so it seems, we do not choose to be born.
> > I have said that the things we choose reveal who we are.  An ugly man
> > and a handsome man don't seem to have choice in that; they are
> > temporary/provincial trappings.  A man can choose how he voices himself!
> >
> 
> Very good and exactly right.  I myself try very hard to be deliberate in
> my
> choices and voices, for in the world of e-mail discussion, we have
> nothing
> else to go on but the sincerity of our words.  So be sure that I don't
> speak
> lightly when I proclaim a  cessation of interaction, or more specifically
> in
> this case, a cessation of unwanted interaction (that's an important
> caveat,
> btw)
> 
> 
> 
> >  I think life is diverse enough to keep things interesting between
> > people who choose wisely --- that is, compassion, concern, etc.
> > shouldn't become boring.  (If it ever does, someone will have to cross
> > that bridge then.)
> >
> >
> 
> "Boring" is definitely NOT an issue here.
> 
> 
> > Anyway, to the second.  It is real easy to speak in superlatives.  These
> > superlatives can hide the important stuff behind the masks.  On the
> > other hand, once seeing behind the mask becomes conventional, all the
> > qualifiers like 'probably', and 'maybe', and 'I think', which are quite
> > important, might be able to be dropped conventionally for ease of
> > speaking.  This is something I caution against.  Anyway, I think such a
> > superlative as 'will never' is something you might come to regret.
> > Fortunately, I think you deserve the right to take it back.  Life
> > doesn't hold one to such things.  But your reputation does suffer.
> >
> 
> Well as to my reputation... one nice thing about life on the "low road"
> is
> that I don't have to worry too much about such things.
> 
> I had qualms and regrets, even while typing my superlative "never".  But
> yet, I did it anyway.  The caveat "unwillingly" does leave the door open
> to
> future engagement if dmb ever wanted any.  I'm pretty doubtful of that
> though.  You'd have to review a lot of our history if you were to
> understand
> fully the whole story, but dmb has argued for my exclusion from this
> forum
> for a long time and has expressed nothing but contempt for my viewpoint. 
> I
> honestly think it'd be easier to get a facelift and turn into a handsome
> man, than change who I fundamentally am.  If there are misunderstandings,
> those can be rectified.  But how can I rectify "nausea"?  That's a
> visceral
> reaction that can't be argued away.
> 
> 
> >
> > So, together, I would suggest - certainly for a case like this, where
> > you went out of your way to say it, and it wasn't just a slip-up - that
> > you consider this advice, that you come to agree with it (or help me see
> > why I am being unfair), and that you inform dmb of your reneging on that
> > comment.  Further, it seems you have kicked a surprised man when he is
> > down.
> 
> 
> Here is where I think you're wrong.  I don't get dmb being "down" at all.
> Maybe you know something I don't.  But I've had no indication of this.
> Second, I can't see my "kicking" to be any sort of consequence to dmb. 
> His
> opinion of me is so low that my kicks mean absolutely nothing to him. 
> Who
> cares what a poor white trash plebian thinks?  As Adrie has so kindly
> pointed out, I will never amount to anything and dmb has all kinds of
> academic success and applause so there's no reason to conclude that my
> cessation of interaction with him means anything at all to him.
> 
> 
> 
> > So while loneliness can be a bitch, such dickery might be even
> > worse!!!  I think you own him an apology.  I meant what I said about
> > dmb.  I think he is real smart, and before too long he will be back
> > kicking ass - in a good way.
> >
> > Yours,
> > Tim
> 
> 
> In spite of everything, I wish him well on his High Road,
> 
>  But as for me...
> 
> "I've never known a love so strong, or so crazy when done wrong."
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UjLTdNMfig
> 
> 
> Thanks for caring, Tim.  You're a good man and a most welcome addition to
> this conversation.
> 
> John
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