[MD] The Dynamics of Value

[Jan-Anders]

  Mark

The difference of definition of Quality in ZMM vs Lila is discussed 
earlier in MD.

The wholy lowest number of legs on a stool  is 1. That is the number of 
legs in the stool that people milking cows are using. 
http://www.cattlestore.com/p-1422-coburn-strap-on-milk-stool.aspx

What I think is interesting with this example is that it uses absolute 
numbers and explicit characteristics. The number of legs or more the 
number of standpoints in a contact surface is crucial for the affect on 
the contact between the surface and the thing.

1 leg is supporting a stable heigth. Working in the same direction as 
the leg.

2 legs are supporting stability in the same direction as the shortest 
line between the two endpoints. Motorcycle and skates.

3 legs is the best for stools on an uneven surfaces. 
http://chestofbooks.com/crafts/popular-mechanics/The-Boy-Mechanic-1000-Things-for-Boys-to-Do/A-Milk-Stool.html

4 legs is giving the largest area and best stability on flat surfaces 
like modern floors to the number. Just think about how annoying it is if 
you sit on a restaurant and one of the legs are uneven causing the table 
to wooble.

A 5th leg is not adding stability in proportion to the cost of a 5th leg.
On vehicles a 5th wheel causes problem with the dirigibility, how it 
acts when it is turning and like.

There are 6 wheel trucks but in these cases a double bogie system is one 
standpoint supported by 2 wheels on each side to be able to carry a 
heavier load. On a 6 wheel truck still have 4 standpoints for its stability.

Things with more than 7-8 corner standpoints as water towers, radio 
masts and silos can often more be liked as 1 leg system with its main 
purpose to support a stable heigth.

A blanket in the grass can be considered as something with 0 or an 
infinite number of standpoints but is it a stool?

Legs and standpoints are dealing with numbers, low numbers and pure 
integers. It is no idea with a 0.89 leg or a 3.4 wheeled motorcycle... 
Easy stable math.

JA

moq_discuss-request at lists.moqtalk.org wrote 2011-01-16 18.06:
> Hi J-A,
> Yes, indeed, always on the road to a more perfect union.  I would only
> disagree with you on the difference between ZMM and Lila.  What can be
> intuited from ZMM is a bit deeper than that from Lila, concerning
> Quality.  I think that is why ZMM was so popular.  I find Lila to be a
> bit superficial in its attempt, in that it sketches a picture that
> seems too construed.  But, I prefer a narrative approach where I can
> place myself in the protagonist's place, so it may just be a
> preference. Perhaps I did not understand Lila.
>
> Indeed, three is a holy number, a stool cannot stand on two legs.  The
> tripods of reality.
>
> Cheers,
> Mark

About entropy:

moq_discuss-request at lists.moqtalk.org wrote 2011-01-16 13.53:
> Interesting.  By sorting and encoding memory, we are creating
> potential energy from kinetic.  What was once random (or all zero's),
> becomes highly ordered with a purpose, that is to encode and release
> music.  Since we know that energy is mass, and mass does not change,
> the form of energy must change.  So while there is no additional
> weight (I am assuming, but my quantum mechanics is not too good),
> there is a conversion of energy.  A simple analogy would be building a
> house out of bricks.  The weight of the bricks do not change, but
> their entropy decreases.  The house then assumes a potential for
> living in.  The memory creates a potential for generating music.
>
> So, we have a conversion of your Pattern, to a form of energy.  You
> probably already know this, since entropy decreases with pattern
> formation.  So, if pattern is form of energy, does this change your
> observations of dynamic quality?

You are right again. It takes energy to change a pattern. But the input 
energy does not convert into pattern. Moving a brick higher, rises it's 
potential energy. But that potential energy is not pattern. It is just 
energy.

JA


--------

John

Exact. What is the physical weigth of a triangula or just a pattern?

That is why we must separate energy, pattern and value as three aspects 
of any event.
Energy and mass has weight. Pattern is how the energy or mass is 
ordered. The order or location is independent of the mass.

JA

moq_discuss-request at lists.moqtalk.org wrote 2011-01-15 20.01:
> Jan-Anders,
>
> Seems to me, you're magazine is  asking "what is the weight of an idea?"
>
> Since that's a fairly weighty question, I take it as self-answering!
>
> John
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 5:22 AM, Jan-Anders<jananderses at telia.com>  wrote:
>
>> >  Hi Ham and John
>> >
>> >  About is-ness and nothingness. Picked this question out from a Magazine.
>> >
>> >  "What is the weight of the music in an iPod? As we know that there is some
>> >  form of information downloaded into the iPod it must have some weight?"
>> >
>> >  My answer is: (in some way related to Pirsigs writing of instruction books
>> >  for Fortran computers. Lila. ch. ?)
>> >
>> >  Computers have memory. When you load information into it it is not adding
>> >  more mass or energy. The only thing that happens is that you Change the
>> >  information from blank silence into sound. Instead of the zillion zero's in
>> >  a row that is the factory presettings of the memory (silence or emptyness)
>> >  you change the Pattern of the memory into a certain mix of 1's and 0's. The
>> >  physical weight is unaltered but the pattern is altered. Value is
>> >  independent from the downloaded pattern. The Value depends on the
>> >  interaction between the iPod and the listener. It could be the complete
>> >  works of Artie Schroeck. In that case silence would be of higher value?
>> >
>> >  I do not have an iPod. The Value of having an iPod is nothingness to me as
>> >  I still have my stereo equipment and my record collection in good condition.
>> >  Which is somethingness.
>> >
>> >  best
>> >
>> >  Jan-Anders