[MD] Democritus and MoQ

[118]

Hi J-A,
Thanks for your reply.  I started a thread concerning embodiment of
the levels which could also be incorporated.  I suggested that each
level has a unique purpose which defines it.  I have transferred some
of that thought to reply to your post below.

On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 2:37 AM, Jan-Anders <jananderses at telia.com> wrote:
> Hi Mark
>
> I think the difference between the social level and the intellectual level
> is based on the existence of a distance upon the social level which is the
> place where intellectual concepts live. Thruths, myths, tales and questions.
> In this world where humanity look at itself and perform its choices,
> sometimes by chance and sometimes by necessity, like sailing. The conscious
> state of the intellectual mind opens doors for other causes than chance and
> necessity, like stupidity, greed or curiosity. The most interesting cause to
> give fruit to something is the cause of Art, rta, Areté. Somewhere between
> chance and necessity.

[Mark]
In my opinion, each level has a different intent.  It is difficult to
sense the social level or even the intellectual level from the
individual level, but we can provide analogies to these for discussion
and learning.  Each level does what it is supposed to do, and as such,
they are vastly different and require leaps to move in between.  We
have no notion of the consciousness of the social level in the same
way we do not know what the consciousness of the inorganic level is.
Our view is through the individual level, the personal consciousness,
or as has been denoted the biological level.

The intellectual level is not the sum total of our intelligences, but
is a level with purposes different from the biological or the social.
The biological could be considered governed by Darwinistic rules, but
the intellectual level is outside those.  We are not speaking of the
survival of a species with the intellectual level.

It was my intent to simplify everything into chance and necessity, as
governing bodies, much in the same way as static and dynamic is used
to describe Quality.  I believe that Areté is a good example of
necessity.  Do we choose high quality, or is it a necessity to achieve
such?  Greed and curiosity could also be considered in the framework
of necessity.  Why do we choose the better life, is it a form of
necessity?  Are we driven to choose a better life (whatever that
means)?  There is a force of Areté that we are being driven by, we
express such a thing in our human way.  So, my understanding of
Necessity is much more that just doing what it takes to stay alive.
It is doing that which we have been empowered and driven to do.

>[JA]
> A child can build a tower of blocks, it is more than something hapening just
> out of chance, it will fall in the end by necessity as no tower can grow to
> the sky. The balancing act is the art, rta, areté.
>
[Mark]
I would also say that the building of a tower is one of necessity.

Cheers,
Mark
>
>
> moq_discuss-request at lists.moqtalk.org wrote 2011-01-21 20.17:
>>
>> "Everything existing in the universe is the fruit of chance and necessity"
>>
>> is the one I wanted to discuss.  Based in Democritus' insight into the
>> nature of physics, perhaps he had insight into MoQ.
>>
>> In this quote, we have split reality into chance and necessity which
>> is another knife division of reality like the dynamic/static split.
>> We have a pretty good analogy for what chance is, and have discussed
>> that quite a bit in this forum.  I do not want to belabor that side of
>> the split, but want to look into Necessity.  I have posted what I call
>> Intent.  This can be loosely translated as will or even desire.  This
>> Intent is all we have when we are first introduced to this world, from
>> a personal level.  We of course also have our physical bodies and all
>> that happens within them.  Intent could also be translated as
>> necessity.  So, what is necessity?  I suppose it could be "that which
>> we have to do".  Why is there something that we have to do?  Well,
>> this is the connection with Intent.  It is something that we come
>> with.  A tree is born to become a tree, that is its necessity.
>>
>> If we were to relegate the world of chance to that of static quality,
>> and consider Necessity to be the dynamic aspect of Quality, then it
>> may be possible to begin creating analogies of Dynamic Quality based
>> on such a premise.  From purely the human point of view, each level
>> could be labeled with its own Intent.  This has actually been done by
>> some in the forum already when they state that the organic level does
>> what the organic level is supposed to do.  Or put another way, each
>> level exists for itself, that is its intent.  It uses static quality
>> to perform such necessary functions.
>>
>> In addition to placing some more descriptive terms into MoQ, it may
>> also serve to better encompass our place in such a thing.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mark
>>
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