[MD] Democritus and MoQ

[Jan-Anders]

Hi Mark

I think that the purpose of the intellectual level is to deliver 
undeniable truths like "cogito ergo sum", logic and mathematical 
connections.

There is a darwinistic function in the intellectual level as "good 
ideas" survive while bad ideas fade away.

How many times have i read ch 12 in Lila? 25 or 50? I really like that 
chapter. The distance to the world as "the Highland of the soul". 
Wherein we can juggle around with our clear minds....

If we imagine a car and the key to it. Let a school class show all 
things they can do with it. Quite obvious but not so interesting.

Now change the key and take a spoon instead. Let the pupils deal with 
the problem, a locked car and a spoon. What will they do with it?
Next round, change the gear stick with a spoon.

As usual I think in three dimensions and I just have to say that there 
must be a space of freedom "between" chance and necessity. In real, 
chance and necessity is not opposites but complements and we must have a 
third to complete the figure.

Building a tower of blocks is not a necessity and it will never be 
perfect. Its an expression of freedom. That is where the fun begins.

Chapter 12 of Lila is an interesting problem and not just a brilliant 
solution. That is why I like it.

best

Jan-Anders

moq_discuss-request at lists.moqtalk.org wrote 2011-01-23 08.01:
> Hi J-A,
> Thanks for your reply.  I started a thread concerning embodiment of
> the levels which could also be incorporated.  I suggested that each
> level has a unique purpose which defines it.  I have transferred some
> of that thought to reply to your post below.
>
> On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 2:37 AM, Jan-Anders<jananderses at telia.com>  wrote:
>> >  Hi Mark
>> >
>> >  I think the difference between the social level and the intellectual level
>> >  is based on the existence of a distance upon the social level which is the
>> >  place where intellectual concepts live. Thruths, myths, tales and questions.
>> >  In this world where humanity look at itself and perform its choices,
>> >  sometimes by chance and sometimes by necessity, like sailing. The conscious
>> >  state of the intellectual mind opens doors for other causes than chance and
>> >  necessity, like stupidity, greed or curiosity. The most interesting cause to
>> >  give fruit to something is the cause of Art, rta, Aret?. Somewhere between
>> >  chance and necessity.
> [Mark]
> In my opinion, each level has a different intent.  It is difficult to
> sense the social level or even the intellectual level from the
> individual level, but we can provide analogies to these for discussion
> and learning.  Each level does what it is supposed to do, and as such,
> they are vastly different and require leaps to move in between.  We
> have no notion of the consciousness of the social level in the same
> way we do not know what the consciousness of the inorganic level is.
> Our view is through the individual level, the personal consciousness,
> or as has been denoted the biological level.
>
> The intellectual level is not the sum total of our intelligences, but
> is a level with purposes different from the biological or the social.
> The biological could be considered governed by Darwinistic rules, but
> the intellectual level is outside those.  We are not speaking of the
> survival of a species with the intellectual level.
>
> It was my intent to simplify everything into chance and necessity, as
> governing bodies, much in the same way as static and dynamic is used
> to describe Quality.  I believe that Aret? is a good example of
> necessity.  Do we choose high quality, or is it a necessity to achieve
> such?  Greed and curiosity could also be considered in the framework
> of necessity.  Why do we choose the better life, is it a form of
> necessity?  Are we driven to choose a better life (whatever that
> means)?  There is a force of Aret? that we are being driven by, we
> express such a thing in our human way.  So, my understanding of
> Necessity is much more that just doing what it takes to stay alive.
> It is doing that which we have been empowered and driven to do.
>
>> >[JA]
>> >  A child can build a tower of blocks, it is more than something hapening just
>> >  out of chance, it will fall in the end by necessity as no tower can grow to
>> >  the sky. The balancing act is the art, rta, aret?.
>> >
> [Mark]
> I would also say that the building of a tower is one of necessity.
>
> Cheers,
> Mark
>> >
>> >
>> >  moq_discuss-request at lists.moqtalk.org  wrote 2011-01-21 20.17:
>>> >>
>>> >>  "Everything existing in the universe is the fruit of chance and necessity"
>>> >>
>>> >>  is the one I wanted to discuss. ?Based in Democritus' insight into the
>>> >>  nature of physics, perhaps he had insight into MoQ.
>>> >>
>>> >>  In this quote, we have split reality into chance and necessity which
>>> >>  is another knife division of reality like the dynamic/static split.
>>> >>  We have a pretty good analogy for what chance is, and have discussed
>>> >>  that quite a bit in this forum. ?I do not want to belabor that side of
>>> >>  the split, but want to look into Necessity. ?I have posted what I call
>>> >>  Intent. ?This can be loosely translated as will or even desire. ?This
>>> >>  Intent is all we have when we are first introduced to this world, from
>>> >>  a personal level. ?We of course also have our physical bodies and all
>>> >>  that happens within them. ?Intent could also be translated as
>>> >>  necessity. ?So, what is necessity? ?I suppose it could be "that which
>>> >>  we have to do". ?Why is there something that we have to do? ?Well,
>>> >>  this is the connection with Intent. ?It is something that we come
>>> >>  with. ?A tree is born to become a tree, that is its necessity.
>>> >>
>>> >>  If we were to relegate the world of chance to that of static quality,
>>> >>  and consider Necessity to be the dynamic aspect of Quality, then it
>>> >>  may be possible to begin creating analogies of Dynamic Quality based
>>> >>  on such a premise. ?From purely the human point of view, each level
>>> >>  could be labeled with its own Intent. ?This has actually been done by
>>> >>  some in the forum already when they state that the organic level does
>>> >>  what the organic level is supposed to do. ?Or put another way, each
>>> >>  level exists for itself, that is its intent. ?It uses static quality
>>> >>  to perform such necessary functions.
>>> >>
>>> >>  In addition to placing some more descriptive terms into MoQ, it may
>>> >>  also serve to better encompass our place in such a thing.
>>> >>
>>> >>  Regards,
>>> >>  Mark
>>> >>
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