[MD] Proust vs Hobbes

[Jan-Anders]

Hi Marsha

This time you will have some 3D-answers below.

moq_discuss-request at lists.moqtalk.org wrote 2011-01-24 18.51:
> Greetings Jan-Anders,
>
>
> On Jan 24, 2011, at 9:38 AM, Jan-Anders wrote:
>
>> >  Hi Marsha
>> >  
>> >  I don't agree with that it's just art. Literal communication makes us come closer to each others thinking and we can define certain distinct  common philosophical tools to be used in the extended process of expanding the intellectual level. One tool we got from RMP is the MOQ and the 4 levels, just as an example.
> I do not understand why you would convert the statement "works of art" to "just art"?   The Proust quote suggests to me that different readers might understand the text differently dependent by their particular character and history.  An absolute meaning might not be so obvious.  With this consideration in mind, Chapter 12 may not have an obvious, clear meaning shared by everyone.  Maybe you could explain how you would use the 4 levels?
Not exactly as you would naturally.. but we can take an analogy and look 
at traffic. We are bound to drive where there are roads i e keep driving 
at places where we don't get stuck in the mud. (true objective number of 
reality, mass, energy). There is a general agreement among all drivers 
to keep right and stop at the red light. These are basic static patterns 
to survive on the street. (pattern)
Anyone is completely free to drive where ever he want at to some limits 
at his own pace. She can choose the brand and color of the car he like, 
even what radio channel to play. (Value)

1. The inorganic level doesn't care about where I am driving but the 
friction between tyres and asfalt causes irreversible wear and the 
gasoline is inexorably burning away in the engine. 2. Our biology 
deserves some heat while 3. entering Montana in my duty some of these 
days. 4. I've got text messages from MD on my SonyEricsson P900 that 
really does not have to do with where I am going today.

Energy, pattern and value in all 4 levels.
>
>> >  "For such is the nature of men that howsoever they may acknowledge many others to be more witty, or more eloquent or more learned, yet they will hardly believe there be many so wise as themselves; for they see their own wit at hand, and other men's at a distance."
>> >  (Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan ch. XIII)
> Well, I don't think myself to be so wise or witty, and I question my own understanding.
>
> Marsha
Bright light can be blinding and it is hard to look beside it. Your own 
wit is so close to your mind that it can be a hard time for any man to 
convince you that there are more out there.

We must meet or have contact (mass) to keep up a dialogue
We choose a language known and comfortable to both (pattern)
We are free to express and interpret the meaning in our own way (value)

A good dialogue is based upon an appropriate balance between contact, 
language and richness of expressions. Just as MD.

Thanks Horse for letting out the premises

Jan-Anders