[MD] The MoQ and Politics?

[John Carl]

Good day, Marsha,

>
>
> >
> > I should have said "tricky answer" rather than a "trick answer".
>
> I answered understanding you meant "trick answer,"  and I wasn't
> trying to trick anyone.
>
>
No, I don't think you were.  But what I meant by "tricky" as opposed to
"trick" had to do with the intrinsic nature of the formulation - "if you
want to change the world, change yourself".  That's a tricky answer, for
it's tricky sometimes to tell where the line between subject and object,
self and world, can be drawn.  We both freely admit there is no place where
the line has to be drawn - there's no metaphysically fundamental distinction
of necessity, so such a line is always a creative act and it can be tricky
at times, figuring out in the moment where the best point is.



>
> > I dunno, Marsha, it feels like evasion to me.
>
> There was no question in your previous post, so what could I possibly
> evading?
>
>
Again, not you, but the formulation itself, seems to be used at times (by
myself, you, Pirsig, others) in an evasive way - deflecting the problems we
see around us.  A way of ignoring what needs to be dealt with, retreating
into our isolated shells.  And sometimes that's probably a good thing.  So I
can't utterly reject it.

Maybe I should say that I identify strongly with the propensity in myself to
use this philosophical outlook as an evasion of responsibility.  That's
probably closer to truth than anything and thus I'm not pointing the finger
at you.  I'm making confession.



>
> > And the fact is, the Eastern Ways of Liberation seem to promote a certain
> > fatalism wherein nothing much gets done in countries where it's
> prominent.
>
> This statement seems to be insinuating that there are countries in the East
> filled
> with liberated citizens who are also fatalistic.   This may be true, but
> I've never
> heard of such a country.
>
>
Well there are cultural tendencies which stem from certain outlooks, and I
think it's appropriate to examine the pragmatic outworkings of Buddhist
philsophy/religion.  I think ZAMM and the MoQ have been stated as a blending
of East and West, a necessary meeting ground.  This combination wouldn't be
necessary if the Eastern Ways of liberation (Watt's term for
Buddhism/Taoism/Hinduism) held all the answers.  We'd just convert, eh?



>
>
>
> The outworkings of this philosophical stance don't seem all that
> productive
> > to me.  My first construction boss was my dad, and he had a saying "DO
> > something, even if it's wrong".  He hated to see guys standing around
> dithering.
>
> First you agree that Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj is correct, but then narrow
> his
> statement and disagree.  I think his comment needs to be understood from
> a nondualistic point-of-view where there is no separation between I and
> "the
> world"  (Quality).
>
>

My study has not been comprehensive.  You're certainly right there.  My
brother is very enthusiastic about "non-duality".  He talks about it all the
time and I've agreed to read a book on it so perhaps I can offer a more
informed discussion in the future.  At present, there's something that I
don't quite like, but it's hard to say what, or why.



> I don't know how you are applying "fatalism."  I don't see where Eastern
> philosophies/religions are any more fatalistic than Western philosophies/
> religions.
>
>

Well it's kind of a cliche that's applied to the East frequently, that
"they" are a fatalistic people.  Resigned to Karma.  Perhaps the
philosophies themselves are not so, but when taught to people and tribes,
the fallout of the teachings do produce a more fatalistic view than western
thinking.  I can do some digging and quoting if you want me to support this
more rigorously.



>
> Would 'not doing' be such a horrible thing?
>
>
>

Everything is relative, Marsha.  For me, "not doing" is very easy!  And
thus, something which I need to struggle against at times.



> p.s.  It is because of Platt that I have read more of Wordsworth's poetry.
>  I'm happy
> the poem I selected meant something to you too.
>
>
> p.p.s.  The bald eagle came a visiting yesterday.  He sat for the longest
> time on a
> huge pine.  I watched and then scrambled to get my camera, but the battery
> was
> not charged.  -  This morning during the snow storm a pair of red-tail
> hawks were
> sitting in another tree for short while.  Soooo wonderful!
>
>
>
Here in the NorCal foothills, we are experiencing warm days while the valley
floor is getting lots of fog.  I can just see the top of it in the evening
like wide cotton sea, and me up above it all.

The good weather has been a special blessing since I've been all week moving
and removing every single item from all the nooks and crannies of a house
we've been living in for 18 years.  A tedious process but it's finally
done.  Woo hoo!

Next step is to move in a small crew of workers, who will begin to fix the
place up and get it looking nice.  I think I like the idea of turning it
into a sort of Boarding home for hippies, renting rooms out by the week, but
we're a ways from that yet.

Take care,

John