[MD] The other side of reified

[X Acto]

Mark said,
I would agree with you.  Radical empiricism is anything but
metaphysics.  In fact it is the antithesis of metaphysics.  This is
why it is termed radical, not because it is a new kind of empiricism,
but because it is empiricism taken to its maximum definition.  So,
when Ron or dmb speak of your metaphysics being abstract, I would say,
"well, of course, that's why it is called metaphysics and not
science".  But any metaphysics has to be born from actual data.  We
cannot conceive of anything but what we experience.

Ron:
 Dave and I are speaking about
as you are, why metaphysics should be based on experience and not
a rationalization like nothingness. Not his metaphysics or metaphysics
in general. 

Mark:
> For one thing, we don't "directly experience Quality independent of
> intellectual abstractions."  Quality is an assessment of the aesthetic or
> moral value of a phenomenon relative to other phenomena experienced or
> observed.  That involves memory recall, intellectual judgment, and
> sufficient experience with the type of phenomenon in question to make such
> an assessment.  (And please don't quote me the hot stove analogy again.
> Getting one's ass burned is not experiencing Quality--high or low, positive
> or negative--it's feeling pain.)

Ron:
What is pain but a value judgement on the cellular level. Any reaction to 
stimuli
is a value judgement. What is a value judgement but quality?



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Ands lets keep this civil , I'm in the mood to be a dick today.