[MD] Free Will

[MarshaV]

 J-A,

My post was not meant to be a "smart" quick-fire reply.  I consider what you've written here to represent your point-of-view, and I respect that.  My point-of-view is that free will is an intellectual static pattern of value that can be dropped, along with an autonomous causation.  Dropping them has no affect on my ability to accept personal responsibility within a conventional (static) reality.  I am not sure why you think the future requires freewill.    Personally, I find a more mindful/intuitional response to experience provides a better quality of life.  

Marsha 
 
 
 
 
On Jun 20, 2011, at 6:56 AM, MarshaV wrote:

> 
> J-A,
> 
> Okay, this is your understanding of "the way things are."  Mine is: 
> not this, not that.        
> 
> 
> Marsha  
> 
> 
> 
> On Jun 20, 2011, at 5:27 AM, Jan-Anders Andersson wrote:
> 
>> Sorry Marsha and Steve but you are definitely on the wrong way here.
>> 
>> Free will is not an illusion. Free will is the ultimate basic condition for unpredictability and ever changing identities.
>> 
>> It may be scary to grasp the personal responsibility it takes but without free will there would be no future at all.
>> 
>> Enjoy life
>> 
>> Jan-Anders
>> 
>> 20 jun 2011 kl. 10.36 skrev moq_discuss-request at lists.moqtalk.org:
>> 
>>> On Jun 19, 2011, at 6:57 PM, Steven Peterson wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Horse <horse at darkstar.uk.net> wrote:
>>>>> So we're kind of back to the idea that 'Free Will' is an illusion!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sam Harris goes further to say that those who meditate learn that
>>>> illusion of free will is itself an illusion:
>>>> 
>>>> "It is generally argued that our sense of free will presents a
>>>> compelling mystery: on the one hand, it is impossible to make sense of
>>>> in causal terms; on the other, we feel that we are the authors of our
>>>> own actions. However, I think that this mystery is itself a symptom of
>>>> our confusion. It is not that free will is simply an illusion: our
>>>> experience is not merely delivering a distorted view of reality;
>>>> rather, we are mistaken about the character of our experience. We do
>>>> not feel as free as we think we do. Our sense of our own freedom
>>>> results from our not paying close attention to what it is like to be
>>>> ourselves in the world. The moment we do pay attention, we begin to
>>>> see that free will is nowhere to be found, and our subjectivity is
>>>> perfectly compatible with this truth. Thoughts and intentions simply
>>>> arise in the mind. What else could they do? The truth about us is
>>>> stranger than many suppose: the illusion of free will is itself an
>>>> illusion."
>>> 
>>> Hi Steve,
>>> 
>>> This is right on, and why it is so hard to find a good way to say it.  The 
>>> illusion of free will and causation are themselves illusions.  The illusion 
>>> is an illusion, like emptiness is empty, like the fundamental nature of 
>>> of the determinate is the indeterminate.  Can it become any more 
>>> beautiful. 
>>> 
>>> Great quote!     
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Marsha 



 
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