[MD] Free Will

[Dan Glover]

Hello everyone

On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Steven Peterson
<peterson.steve at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>dmb:
>> We want to know whether we are responsible or determined for practical reasons.... And that's why we want to know about responsibility and determinism, because of the practical effects it has in human life. It's a human question, not a metaphysical mystery.

Dan:
I would say in the context of this discussion, it is a moral question:
human and metaphysically mysterious. What some contributors seem to be
saying is that determinism entails a lack of responsibility for one's
actions. That is only so if we insist on believing our actions cause
outcomes in predictable ways. They both do and do not.

>
>
>Steve:
> For what practical reasons do we want to know whether we are
> responsible or determined? We would still need to condemn the
> intention to do harm and praise the intention to do good whether or
> not we think of people as subject to a chain of causality or free of
> such chains (for the practical reason that we think that doing so has
> predictable effects on others).

Dan:

If you've been following the discussion between Matt and myself, in my
last post I wrote about considering karma from both a causal and a
preconditional point of view. I think this has repercussions with what
you seem to be saying. From a practical (conventional) point of view,
you are right. But for a Dynamic point of view, consider this quote
from the Bhagavad Gita: "Action is thy duty, reward not thy concern."

>From a conventional, causal chain-of-action point of view, we come to
believe our intentions have certain predictable outcomes, while from a
point of view based on B valuing precondition A, we come to understand
the certainty implied by causality is a dysfunctional narrative we've
built up during a lifetime of practical thinking. Condemnation and
praise are not preconditions for action. They are the result of the
dysfunctional narrative of causality.

Practically, those who eschew the karmic dumping on others achieve far
more than those who pass along all the crap that comes their way. This
is a very important lesson, and one that is extremely difficult to
follow in day to day situations. I constantly find myself dumping on
others. And my immediate reaction is to apologize. But then I realize
that I am merely acting in a normal fashion and that I have nothing
for which to apologize. Instead, I strive to subtly change this
dysfunctional narrative to a functional one whereby I see more clearly
where the other person is coming from, and I understand a bit more
clearly the mystery that is life.

Thank you,

Dan