[MD] This is what democracy looks like

[Horse]

And on that note perhaps we could get back to the business of this list 
- i.e. the MoQ

On 16/10/2011 11:51, Michael R. Brown wrote:
> Horse -
>
> Making assertions and then calling someone else's reasoning silly is 
> pretty silly.
>
> Hey, if I keep this up, I'll really sound like an MOQ'er!
>
>
> MRB
> http://www.fuguewriter.com
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Horse
> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 3:46 AM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] This is what democracy looks like
>
> I see the same silly remarks that silly people make to cover up their
> inability to admit failure.
> Very similar comments were made about communism.
> You're saying nothing I haven't seen before and what you are saying is
> complete nonsense.
>
>
> On 16/10/2011 11:42, Michael R. Brown wrote:
>> Horse -
>>
>> Failed? Really? And we've had pure, laissez-faire capitalism all this 
>> time?
>>
>> That growth postulate is nowhere required by economic liberty, and 
>> resources are not "denied" to the rest of the world. The central 
>> factor is bad government. Africa suffers from oppression by African 
>> socialism principally (which was quite compatible with dictators) - 
>> and it has enormous resources. Market-based economies produce 
>> resources; government-dominated ones can't and don't. (Look at the 
>> USSR having to use tubes in their fighter aircraft into the 1980s.)
>>
>> Deregulation never happened. Ever. As long as government controls 
>> paper money, alone, you cannot claim that things are not regulated. 
>> The market is far more regulated than it can bear, and other things 
>> besides (to pick a random example, the destructive effects of things 
>> like Fannie and Freddie, which in fact priced lower-income people out 
>> of housing *over time* and led to an inflationary mentality in real 
>> estate).
>>
>> We've had a mixed economy for many decades, and these are the 
>> consequences falling due. The $60-120trillion unfunded liability bomb 
>> in the ill-designed welfare schemes known as Social Security and 
>> Medicare are going to make the crash of '08-present look like child's 
>> play unless we go forward to liberty. Talk about unsustainable.
>>
>> And when those crises hit, capitalism will be blamed then, too. "The 
>> rich" did it, always.
>>
>>
>> MRB
>> http://www.fuguewriter.com
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Horse
>> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 3:31 AM
>> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>> Subject: Re: [MD] This is what democracy looks like
>>
>> If we wind back the clock we go back to the conditions that caused the
>> current mess.
>> These include the assumption that continual growth is possible at a rate
>> that is obviously unsustainable and consumption of resources by a few
>> that are denied to the rest of the world.
>> 'The Market' has obviously failed or we wouldn't be in this mess but the
>> response of many seems to be to do more of the same. De-regulation would
>> appear to be at the root of the problem and until a reasonable level of
>> regulation is re-instated this problem will continue.
>>
>> Capitalism, like Communism, has failed and those who cannot see this are
>> in denial.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 16/10/2011 11:13, Ian Glendinning wrote:
>>> I think Horse's is about right. My response to Mary's point - it not 
>>> so much
>>> what democracy looks like, but it's what democracy looks like when it's
>>> broken. (The problem lies in assumptions about consumption and 
>>> growth, and
>>> the addiction to "winning" instead of quality.)
>>>
>>> The problem with the disaffected "revolutionaries" is they can show 
>>> their
>>> frustration, but someone still has to work out what the fix looks like.
>>> Winding the clock back and starting again is unlikely to be the best 
>>> option
>>> (for those doing the protesting, or anyone else).
>>>
>>> Ian
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Horse<horse at darkstar.uk.net>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> No, I think it's what ordinary folk look like when they realised 
>>>> they've
>>>> been screwed over for the last 60 years or so.
>>>> Neither Luddite nor economically illiterate - just ordinary people 
>>>> who've
>>>> had enough.
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>

-- 

"Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid."
— Frank Zappa